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Great Advice From Marcus Miller
- Thread starter Rockmusician
- Start date
Just cuz it hasn't been mentioned yet... would a true reproduction of Marcus' 75 jazz be fairly expensive in this day and age? It was certainly one of the more pricey instruments at the time....
Having said that, I agree with his basic premise - find that one instrument that works for you and play the $hit out of it until you own it. Expensive bass or not, truer words have not often been spoken...
Having said that, I agree with his basic premise - find that one instrument that works for you and play the $hit out of it until you own it. Expensive bass or not, truer words have not often been spoken...
Marcus' bass is a '77, not a '75 and it wasn't one of the more pricey instruments at the time at all.
I was in high school and had no job most of the time. It looked like a boatload of money to me.
Okay, 77 then. I know a P bass was around $500 - $600 at the time, yes? the jazz was the "upscale" cousin, and I didn't know of any instruments at the time that cost more - certainly Yamaha, Gibson, Rickenbaker and the rest were in the same ballpark, at least as I recall. Now, it was over 30 years ago...
Still, it was a lot of money at the time as Dr.Cheese has mentioned, and considering the material, labour, and transport costs that would likely be a $1500 + instrument now. Not exactly cheap.
Still, it was a lot of money at the time as Dr.Cheese has mentioned, and considering the material, labour, and transport costs that would likely be a $1500 + instrument now. Not exactly cheap.
The problem, really, is how most of us focus on getting the next nicest bass we can afford.
I like that.
Very true
It was in 1976 and this is the bass:
(from the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] page on the Alembic site.
From Mica (Alembic, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed])
Same month I was delivered
I totally agree with Mr Miller btw, there's absolutely no need for an expensive bass for anyone
‪Flim & the BB's - Tricycle‬‏ - YouTube
I didn't think you were. And even if you were, it's cool.
I guess I'm lucky that I was broke when I first started playing or I might've fallen into the same trap so many musicians do.
Brad, you got me thinking, and I am definitely going to boost my shed time. Now that bass is pretty much a hobby, I can find myself spending way more time talking bass and reading than I do actually improving as a player.
Signature worthy line.
I think the real important part of Marcus statement is to check out how the bass sounds in the mix. I think this is the most missed aspect of most high end bass buyers. That said a lot of high end basses are being used in small group traditional Jazz soloing situations where they excel.
OTOH I've heard some world class players who I wouldn't consider trading tone with in a hundred years. And some of them may sound good, but they could sound a whole lot better with different stuff. And if your as mediocre as me you need to sound good.
I also suspect that Leo Fenders basic formula. 34" scale, bolt on, alder or ash body, maple neck with Rosewood or maple fingerboard is the starting point for success in sitting in the mix. And while my quest is done, if your spending that $2500 on the ultimate Fender your probably on the right tract .
Where I disagree with Marcus is while an off the shelf Fender can do the job they do not have the consistency in QC they had forty years ago. And while you can still find a good one, there are several small makers building better Fenders than Fender. A few months ago I played KJungs Nordy P bass. I'll bet you'd have to play a hundred new Fenders to find a P that was a good of P bass as that Nordy was.
But at the gig, you will be the only one thinking it matters, IMHO unless it's a coffee house gig. Your amp/cab (if you are small venue), or the backline/ FOH if big venue, is the most salient issue. I live in the greater SF bay area and have paid big bucks for the good seats for many shows, and dozens and dozens of small club top notch shows like Marcus. the big ones can be ruined in an instant by a bad sound company which is why I stick with small clubs.
Not to take anything away from Marcus but if you been on TB for any longer than a week you've seen this at least 4 times.
MikeBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 4, 2003
- 11,943
- 3,140
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist- Suhr basses, PedalTrain, GHS, Ultimate Ears
Signature worthy line.
I think the real important part of Marcus statement is to check out how the bass sounds in the mix. I think this is the most missed aspect of most high end bass buyers. That said a lot of high end basses are being used in small group traditional Jazz soloing situations where they excel.
OTOH I've heard some world class players who I wouldn't consider trading tone with in a hundred years. And some of them may sound good, but they could sound a whole lot better with different stuff. And if your as mediocre as me you need to sound good.
I also suspect that Leo Fenders basic formula. 34" scale, bolt on, alder or ash body, maple neck with Rosewood or maple fingerboard is the starting point for success in sitting in the mix. And while my quest is done, if your spending that $2500 on the ultimate Fender your probably on the right tract .
Where I disagree with Marcus is while an off the shelf Fender can do the job they do not have the consistency in QC they had forty years ago. And while you can still find a good one, there are several small makers building better Fenders than Fender. A few months ago I played KJungs Nordy P bass. I'll bet you'd have to play a hundred new Fenders to find a P that was a good of P bass as that Nordy was.
Are you kidding me?!????
QC in the 70's from Fender?!!???? That's something I would never utter in the same sentance unless I included "Lack of" before QC.
To be honest, most 70's Jazz Basses I play(ed) are pieces of total dog crap. VERY few are sweet. And those are the one that people keep. It's only been in the last few years that the prices have skyrocketed because they are getting older. Not because they are such killer basses. They are investments.
IMO people are blinded by the "Marcus plays a 70's Jazz....OOOOOO they're great!!!!" so they're snatching them up hoping to get that lightning in a bottle. Good luck.
My 70's Jazz is on it 3rd neck. Why? Because the first two (both 70's block inlay) were crap and warped.
It's no secret that Leo use the cheapest material he could find.
Rosewood was used not because he had a grand plan, but because at the time, it was cheap. His 34" scale was done out of comfort, not because it worked any better than something else.
If you're lucky, you'll find a nice 70's Jazz. But most are garbage and again, IMO, people are blinded because it's a 70's Jazz.
I could take any new off the shelf Jazz these days and have a better shot at it being a nice bass than comparred to a 70's Jazz.
I'll take a new MIA Jazz over a 70's one pretty much any day for quality and playability.
The MIA RI 70's Jazz- is IMO a far superior quality bass to it's original counter part.
All things tone are completely subjective- before you get to flaming.
And you're comparing a hand made $3000+ bass (ken's Nordy) to a production model $1000 bass.
Seriously......
I would HOPE that the quality is a bit better in the Nordy.But, I used a MIA P5 at Kensington one week (it was Geoff Richardson's) and Tim Corder told me to buy that bass because it was one of the best he's heard in that room.
Wasn't my "thing" really. I'm not a big fan of the P-Bass tone. But this bass was pretty stinkin' nice. And to have Corder, who has mixed my Sadowsky's, Valenti and Laklands tell me that, it holds water to me.
I was in high school and had no job most of the time. It looked like a boatload of money to me.
Not a fair comparison
. When you're broke just about anything can seem expensive. I missed out on a couple of cool cars when I was in high school in the 1970's because I couldn't afford them. The one that really hurt was a very nicely tricked out 1955 Chevy Nomad. The guy wanted $700. Might as well have been $20,000 to me with my grass cutting money (let's see, at $5 a yard...?)I bought a new Jazz in the 1970's in the sub-$400 range. It was my first name brand bass... unless you count Western Auto and Tiesco Del ray as name brands.
I've read over and over again about how bad 70's Jazzes were. That hasn't been my experience as someone who actually used them during the time when they were new. I still have an all original 78 Jazz that's damn near perfect unless you obsess over neck gap which affects nothing IMO except esthetics. And here's something I never see people take into consideration... how was each individual bass handled by the previous owner(s)? I know bassists who'd leave their basses in all sorts or hostile environments without giving any thought as to how the bass would react. Should a bass be able to handle sustained 120+ degree heat in a vehicle? How about bringing it in from a nice night in freezing temperatures and immediately whipping it out in a nice warm environment?
And when those people did those sort of things, how often did they declare the instrument to be crap when what they should've loudly and proudly proclaimed was "I am an idiot. Why did I do that?"
It just doesn't happen. So yeah, it's easy to rag on a 5 or 35 year old instrument that's been through who knows what and automatically deem the manufacturer responisble for whatever and number of nuts behind the wheel might've actually cause. Not that I'd want to spoil anyone's fun of course.
As far as the horrible QC of the current offerings, I'm just not seeing that. Way too often people either don't know or refuse to see that a setup they don't like is not a QC problem... it's a setup issue for them. I'm not seeing all of the actual performance issues people are saying they see and I'm pretty damn picky... just not to the point of ignoring reality.
And when those people did those sort of things, how often did they declare the instrument to be crap when what they should've loudly and proudly proclaimed was "I am an idiot. Why did I do that?"
It just doesn't happen. So yeah, it's easy to rag on a 5 or 35 year old instrument that's been through who knows what and automatically deem the manufacturer responisble for whatever and number of nuts behind the wheel might've actually cause. Not that I'd want to spoil anyone's fun of course.
As far as the horrible QC of the current offerings, I'm just not seeing that. Way too often people either don't know or refuse to see that a setup they don't like is not a QC problem... it's a setup issue for them. I'm not seeing all of the actual performance issues people are saying they see and I'm pretty damn picky... just not to the point of ignoring reality.
That time period was the beginning of some serious alternatives to the standard type basses, Fender being one of them. There definitely were instruments that cost more than any of the ones you mentioned at the time.
When I decided to try out a 5 string I ordered a Rogue 5er from MF for $125. Two years later I was still gigging with it. It sounds pretty good for what I do (gospel and blues). So why do I now have a Warwick? Because someone was about to loose his car and selling it bought him another month or two. If not for the bad economy I would still be using the Rogue 100% of the time.
MikeBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 4, 2003
- 11,943
- 3,140
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist- Suhr basses, PedalTrain, GHS, Ultimate Ears
I've read over and over again about how bad 70's Jazzes were. That hasn't been my experience as someone who actually used them during the time when they were new. I still have an all original 78 Jazz that's damn near perfect unless you obsess over neck gap which affects nothing IMO except esthetics. And here's something I never see people take into consideration... how was each individual bass handled by the previous owner(s)? I know bassists who'd leave their basses in all sorts or hostile environments without giving any thought as to how the bass would react. Should a bass be able to handle sustained 120+ degree heat in a vehicle? How about bringing it in from a nice night in freezing temperatures and immediately whipping it out in a nice warm environment?
And when those people did those sort of things, how often did they declare the instrument to be crap when what they should've loudly and proudly proclaimed was "I am an idiot. Why did I do that?"
It just doesn't happen. So yeah, it's easy to rag on a 5 or 35 year old instrument that's been through who knows what and automatically deem the manufacturer responisble for whatever and number of nuts behind the wheel might've actually cause. Not that I'd want to spoil anyone's fun of course.
As far as the horrible QC of the current offerings, I'm just not seeing that. Way too often people either don't know or refuse to see that a setup they don't like is not a QC problem... it's a setup issue for them. I'm not seeing all of the actual performance issues people are saying they see and I'm pretty damn picky... just not to the point of ignoring reality.
I understand what you're saying Brad, I do.
But when I started playing in the early/mid 80's, Fender basses were kinda laughable. And I'm not talking about the offerings of the 80's either.
I've owned and tried more than I can remember, and only a few were any good. And I have one that I won't get rid of.
I hope your comment was in general, but I've been playing long enough to be able to discern from a good bass with a crappy set up, to just a plain old "bad" bass. Because if it was directed at me personally...
....And I could care less what it was through 10 years or 10 owners ago. If I pick up a bass and it's "bad" (to be general) I don't think "Well, some of these are great, this one must have been great as well, but it was treated poorly, so it's still great!".
Sorry, I've fathom I've played and or owned as many basses as you Brad and my experiance has been the opposite with them.
And I've logged thousands of gigs to be able to tell if something works or not.
I refer to my tag line by my avatar.....
