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Great venue, "difficult'' soundman.

#21
Use diplomacy whenever you can. The entertainment business is like that. Keep the griping and grousing behind closed doors whenever possible, and task your most cordial, agreeable person with dealing with the a**holes that run rampant in the business. Keep in mind that as long as the sound is just only adequate, a stellar performance will win the audience, who generally doesn't spend much time over-internalizing live sound reinforcement issues.

I'm guilty of not following my own advice, mind you, and can attest to the fact that it does you no favors to put up a stink if you plan on playing the gig and/or returning to the venue for future engagements. Yes, it can suck dealing with grumpy, jerky provided help. Up to the point you are blatantly being disrespected (that's an altogether different topic) - and I don't think this rises to that level - you'll find that being cooperative will benefit you in the long haul more than not.

Or, just don't do the gig.

JMHO.
 
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#22
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Explanation - you are professionals and you don't work with amateurs.
 
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#25
Humbled said:
No. I means you have to keep your big-boy chops on.

I've run sound professionally for The Four Tops, The Spinners, Ricky Skaggs, Pam Tillis, Travis Tritt, Firefall, and Jerry Reed.

Being friendly, courteous, on point, and good at what you do is all you need to do.
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I'm not defending lack of friendliness but it's way too easy to be judgemental. For years I worked with a stagehand who was a highly accomplished rigger, flyman, stage carp, props master and at least competent at everything else. He had been badly injured in a rigging accident and what some people mistook for a grumpy old man was really a dedicated topnotch professional dealing with severe chronic pain. I'll take competence whatever wrapper it comes in over pleasant mediocrity any day.
 
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#27
I'm sorry, but 90% of sound reinforcement people who work at the bar level are not just bad; they're ridiculously terrible. I ran my own sound at the show we did on Saturday, and I had a "professional," tell my guitar player that both bass and vocals were drowning out guitar and drums. First of all, we have issues with drums, and we will fix them, so some of the low end was not that great. But the guitar was right where it should be, and I've heard enough bar mixes where vocals are BURIED to know what I'm talking about.
I'm such a nice guy; I go out of my way to respect people, do nice things for people, put other people first, etc, but when you bury my vocals, I will want nothing as much as I want to PUNCH YOU.
Life is too short to work with bad sound reinforcement people. The usual resume is laughable, and the "expertise" is simply not there.
If you're a qualified, technically talented sound guy, you should be working the big shows, and making the big money. And if you work at the local dive bar, SHUT UP. You work for the BAND, and the AUDIENCE and the VENUE OWNER, and NO ONE works for YOU.
Rant over.
 
#28
Humbled said:
No. I means you have to keep your big-boy chops on.

I've run sound professionally for The Four Tops, The Spinners, Ricky Skaggs, Pam Tillis, Travis Tritt, Firefall, and Jerry Reed.

Being friendly, courteous, on point, and good at what you do is all you need to do.
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Ok - whew! Was getting concerned!

Isn't it great when you get to work with the Bigger acts and they are as good people - in person as you had hoped?

It doesn't cost anything extra to be nice!
 
#29
Jeff Bonny said:
I'm not defending lack of friendliness but it's way too easy to be judgemental...
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I respectfully disagree. In the entertainment industry, the members of the stage act are afforded the option of being volatile, because they're under the spotlight, and they're judged broadly by their last performance. The support crew is given no such quarter. They have to be nice or they're in the wrong business.
 
#30
mellowinman said:
You work for the BAND, and the AUDIENCE and the VENUE OWNER, and NO ONE works for YOU.
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Yet some people will argue this simple fact.

I started studying music with professionals who made their living playing and teaching (and all had degrees) when I was 15. From day 1 I was taught that you learned to read and write music, play piano, learned theory, had professional grade equipment, behaved like a professional and expect professional behavior from the people you work with. I just won't work with amateurs. There is nothing professional about allowing yourself to be bullied into working with a rank amateur when you have your own crew. Especially for a fund raiser.

There was a local club that had the world's worst soundman. I won't go into all of the details, but it was the worst job I ever played; everything was just one big muddy blob of sound. Afterwords I told the club owner that we loved the club, but couldn't play there again with that soundman. He said no problem, bring your own guy, which we did.
 
#31
mellowinman said:
I'm sorry, but 90% of sound reinforcement people who work at the bar level are not just bad; they're ridiculously terrible. I ran my own sound at the show we did on Saturday, and I had a "professional," tell my guitar player that both bass and vocals were drowning out guitar and drums. First of all, we have issues with drums, and we will fix them, so some of the low end was not that great. But the guitar was right where it should be, and I've heard enough bar mixes where vocals are BURIED to know what I'm talking about.
I'm such a nice guy; I go out of my way to respect people, do nice things for people, put other people first, etc, but when you bury my vocals, I will want nothing as much as I want to PUNCH YOU.
Life is too short to work with bad sound reinforcement people. The usual resume is laughable, and the "expertise" is simply not there.
If you're a qualified, technically talented sound guy, you should be working the big shows, and making the big money. And if you work at the local dive bar, SHUT UP. You work for the BAND, and the AUDIENCE and the VENUE OWNER, and NO ONE works for YOU.
Rant over.
Click to expand...


You are an angry mob indeed......
(from young guns II - love that movie!)
 
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#32
Seems like you have two basic options; play, or don't. From there, it gets as complicated as you choose to make it.

If it's a benefit that's near and dear to your heart, then, as someone else alluded, suck it up, Buttercup. Play the gig, be professional, and move on. You did your part.

If, however, you couldn't care less about the cause, then gracefully decline the invitation. You have an entire host of excuses at your disposal for not playing.

I've played a ton of free benefit gigs over the decades. I've also declined nealy as many. Once you learn to say "no," it gets much easier.
 
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#33
Humbled said:
when IATSE hands are on an entertainment job you're doing, you know it's gonna be a good day. Just the way it is.
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No actually that isn't the way it is. I've held cards in IATSE locals 118 Stagehands, 891 Film Technicians here in Vancouver and worked in IATSE venues across North America. By no means are all IA locals equal. Some have been outstanding (locals 1 and 26 come to mind), some have given me painfully awful days and some run hot and cold. I gave local 118 their card back last year because....well lets just say that while there are some incredibly accomplished techs on their roster in general their professional standards and mine had ceased to coincide. I'm still a member in good standing of local 891 where I make my living.

Humbled said:
I respectfully disagree. In the entertainment industry, the members of the stage act are afforded the option of being volatile, because they're under the spotlight, and they're judged broadly by their last performance. The support crew is given no such quarter. They have to be nice or they're in the wrong business.
Click to expand...
Get yourself carded, do ten or twenty years in IA houses and we'll see how rosy those rose colored glasses you're looking through right now still are.
 
#38
Jeff Bonny said:
Get yourself carded, do ten or twenty years in IA houses and we'll see how rosy those rose colored glasses you're looking through right now still are.
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I've been carrying an AFM card since 1981, thank you very much, originally obtained just for the privilege of playing in your home country.

Lecture me all you want. I can take it.
 
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#39
RHA III said:
Problem is they have a crazy old grumpy ruin your mojo kinda sound dude. Last year we ignored him and just set up our PA right next to his. Guy was not happy that we didn't need his ''services'' and tried to sabotage us a little, even told us we couldn't use the generator. No problem as we brought our own! I went out of my way to be polite, but he still got ruffled.
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No, you weren't polite. He was there to do a job and you didn't let him. You flat out said you ignored him. Hmm I wonder why he's grumpy? (I'm not really wondering)

If you're hired to do a gig, whether it's free or paid, you obey whatever guidelines the hiring party sets forth, or you don't play.

You're playing a (self admitted) gig in the boonies, not Wembley.

RHA III said:
Fast forward to this year and they asked if we could please use him. To be honest his skills, ear and gear are not the problem, we can/have worked with worse. It's the attitude. Major downer, this guy has a reputation for it.
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Maybe his attitude stems from bands belittling his job?
 
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