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Growly J pickups and advice for noob

SunByrne

SunByrne

trained monkey
Supporting Member
Aug 29, 2019
2,279
6,301
Pearland, TX
#1
OK, so I've been at this long enough that it's time to try a little project over the upcoming winter holiday break. I have a gorgeous Yamaha BB 404 (it's a J bass) that I bought on the TB classifieds and it feels (and looks) great, but I think the pickups are a bit lacking. So, it's time for me to try my hand at replacing pickups. I am... I'm not great at soldering, but I'm not entirely incompetent with a soldering iron and I can read a circuit diagram, so why not?

This leads to a couple questions.

Question #1: Which pickups should I get?

I want something growly, but I can be even more specific. I want growl something along the lines of this:



If I'm going to err, I'd want to err on the slightly more growly side than that, if that makes any sense. What do the TB experts recommend here? Dimarzio Model J? Nordstrands?

Question #2: How to get started?

I know there are lots of guides, but which ones are good ones? I'm also kind of thinking about changing from the current VVT setup to a VBT setup. How hard is that?
 
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#3
If you're pretty new at this, let me cut to the chase:.You can't buy that sound with new pickups. It's in the hands, the amp, the settings on the bass and amp, plus how and who recorded it.

Or you can learn to solder on your own bass, buy new ones and more than likely not get that tone.

You can certainly do what you want, but my advice is to try brighter strings on a professionally set up bass. Plus, what about your amp vs. what's used on that clip?

It's near impossible to buy your way into replicating another player's tone.
 
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#4
J Wilson said:
If you're pretty new at this, let me cut to the chase:.You can't buy that sound with new pickups. It's in the hands, the amp, the settings on the bass and amp, plus how and who recorded it.

Or you can learn to solder on your own bass, buy new ones and more than likely not get that tone.
Click to expand...

This is absolutely great advice in the general case, and I'm totally on board with it. I learned a long time ago that trying to exactly replicate someone else's tone is, in most cases, a fool's errand.

However, sometimes it's also really fun to try to get in the neighborhood, because you learn things along the way. For example, during the pandemic, my son and I tried to build a rig that got us the Royal Blood sound. Does it sound just like Royal Blood? No, of course not. Does it sound identifiably close? Eh, more or less—if you heard it in person, you might say "hey, that's trying to sound like Royal Blood." Close enough. More importantly, it was really fun to do, and we learned a lot from the effort. (Also fun: an excuse to buy a crapload of pedals.)

So let me clarify my goals here: I want to do a project, and that project is replacing pickups. This isn't really about trying to exactly replicate any particular tone, it's about me doing a project. However, I have to have something in mind for what direction I want to go with the pickups, and that's the direction I want to go.

But this is almost entirely about the journey, not the destination.
 
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#5
I'd agree with the bit about the amp, speaker, and playing technique all being important factors to consider as well when trying to nail down a sound/tone. But if you do just wanna mess around with pickup swaps (sounds like you do!), is there a budget you have in mind? You'll probably have noticed, but there is NO shortage of options out there for J-style pickups! So just trying to narrow down any potential recommendations.
 
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#8
I don't understand how a pickup can be 'growly' at all.. Unless the coil were wound so loosely that it could move in a nonlinear way when current flowed through it (pushing against the magnetic field) it couldn't do this, and even then the current is far too low to move the wire physically. Vibration in the bass might do this, but it's still going to be too small an effect to do it directly via any pickup.

Growl comes from composite neck (different woods, a truss rod, etc, an all-graphite neck won't growl the same way if at all), and it also comes from fret noise, low action, new roundwound strings, etc, and playing in ways that make the best use of these details. Hard picking near the bridge for example, it gets lots of harmonics.. Growl extending right through midrange to HF if you want that much. Never mind growl, that can snarl..

A strong output, often had by a pickup close to the strings, or one having a high output even when it's not very close, can help by causing a stronger drive into an electronic input, but this is not the first thing to look for if you want growl. The best the electronics can do is modify growl, if you have it already.
 
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#10
I put Seymour Duncan Hot Stack in the neck position for my show basses. Turn the bridge down a bit… a little like a "P" to me anyway. Also, they have a exchange policy, or did so talk to them and go……
 
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#11
Lostgallifreyan said:
I don't understand how a pickup can be 'growly' at all.. Unless the coil were wound so loosely that it could move in a nonlinear way when current flowed through it (pushing against the magnetic field) it couldn't do this, and even then the current is far too low to move the wire physically. Vibration in the bass might do this, but it's still going to be too small an effect to do it directly via any pickup.

Growl comes from composite neck (different woods, a truss rod, etc, an all-graphite neck won't growl the same way if at all), and it also comes from fret noise, low action, new roundwound strings, etc, and playing in ways that make the best use of these details. Hard picking near the bridge for example, it gets lots of harmonics.. Growl extending right through midrange to HF if you want that much. Never mind growl, that can snarl..

A strong output, often had by a pickup close to the strings, or one having a high output even when it's not very close, can help by causing a stronger drive into an electronic input, but this is not the first thing to look for if you want growl. The best the electronics can do is modify growl, if you have it already.
Click to expand...

Also - use the bridge pickup... that's where the attitude is...
 
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#12
As someone who plays primarily J basses, has swapped a lot of pickups, and has often used a similar tone, to get there I'd go with bright flats like Chromes or Cobalt, dig in with low action, compression to smooth it out, and maybe a bit of grind in the signal chain.

If you're going to limit it to pickups, Model J is a great place to start. Also try wiring the pickups you already have in series; flats will fill out the lows, add treble in the chain to make the articulation pop out if need be.

Good luck and have fun!
 
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#13
Loring said:
Also - use the bridge pickup... that's where the attitude is...
Click to expand...
Very nice. I haven't got one though. But I can project the few inches needed by banging away at it. :) Standard P-bass emulation here (Westone Thunder 1-A, but I get some extra oopmh from using its active circuit). Actually the Westones do allow switching the pickup halves in parallel too. Not exactly a J type arrangement but it might help someone who has access to a Westone bass to try it.
 
#14
SunByrne said:
OK, so I've been at this long enough that it's time to try a little project over the upcoming winter holiday break. I have a gorgeous Yamaha BB 404 (it's a J bass) that I bought on the TB classifieds and it feels (and looks) great, but I think the pickups are a bit lacking. So, it's time for me to try my hand at replacing pickups. I am... I'm not great at soldering, but I'm not entirely incompetent with a soldering iron and I can read a circuit diagram, so why not?

This leads to a couple questions.

Question #1: Which pickups should I get?

I want something growly, but I can be even more specific. I want growl something along the lines of this:



If I'm going to err, I'd want to err on the slightly more growly side than that, if that makes any sense. What do the TB experts recommend here? Dimarzio Model J? Nordstrands?

Question #2: How to get started?

I know there are lots of guides, but which ones are good ones? I'm also kind of thinking about changing from the current VVT setup to a VBT setup. How hard is that?
Click to expand...

Fralin standard (the noiseless fralins are very very close to their standard singles)

Nordstrand NJSV (sound almost exactly like their standard singles)

Fender CS 60s singles (very nice pickups. A little less on the quirk, but maintain the growl and dynamics)
 
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#15
You can get "growl" from a few different places, and I interpret "growl" to be a high-mid bump with interesting harmonic content. Bright flat strings (Chromes and Cobalts, as suggested above) do this naturally because the give you the big high-mid bump, and just about no higher frequency content beyond that. You can also do any roundwound string, bumping down the highs with EQ or tone knob, while boosting mids. Any high output pickups or pickups closer to the string also get growler, because they are just pumping more mid content into the chain. Then there's just playing around with EQ or a bit of overdrive. Personally, I'd try different strings before replacing pickups, and then adjust setup of action and puckup height, but if you are still chasing tone after that pickups and the rest of your signal chain are fair game.

With a J setup (which I have) you get the growl from some blend of the two pickups, and the sweet spot is different for everybody. Pbass pickups kind of just sit in the middle position where the high mids live, so they do the growl thing a bit more naturally.
 
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#17
BassFishingInAmerica said:
Don't know about pickups, but the biggest part of the sound in the OP's video is from bright, new, steel roundwound strings. I'm sure there are many other factors going on besides pickups, but I'd start with the strings and go from there.
Click to expand...

Except she uses nickels …

roto sound 66 swing bass.

I'd say most of her tone is how she plays (is in her hands)
 
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#18
SunByrne said:
OK, so I've been at this long enough that it's time to try a little project over the upcoming winter holiday break. I have a gorgeous Yamaha BB 404 (it's a J bass) that I bought on the TB classifieds and it feels (and looks) great, but I think the pickups are a bit lacking. So, it's time for me to try my hand at replacing pickups. I am... I'm not great at soldering, but I'm not entirely incompetent with a soldering iron and I can read a circuit diagram, so why not?

This leads to a couple questions.

Question #1: Which pickups should I get?

I want something growly, but I can be even more specific. I want growl something along the lines of this:



If I'm going to err, I'd want to err on the slightly more growly side than that, if that makes any sense. What do the TB experts recommend here? Dimarzio Model J? Nordstrands?

Question #2: How to get started?

I know there are lots of guides, but which ones are good ones? I'm also kind of thinking about changing from the current VVT setup to a VBT setup. How hard is that?
Click to expand...


May want to checkout this sticky in the pickups forum. "J" pickups discussion and comparisons.

It's older, but a lot of good information in there that may help you.

Good Luck!
 
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