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Guitar Center amp rant

A real good "mom and pop" that knows their stuff, is customer sensitive and carrys decent products will do well when a Guitar Center is around. The biggest thing in sales is trusting who you are dealing with. With the turnover at the big box stores is difficult to maintain a relationship. With the small stores I deal with, I know the owners well and they know me. They know I'm a gigging player and they get me what I need.
 
So I went to guitar center yesterday to look for a new bass. Well I found one, a Lakland Skyline 4 string. Well I asked a guy to hook up an SVT4PRO to an SVT810E (his name tag said he was a specialist or something like that), yet he didn't know how to. I had to show him where to plug the cables into on the head and cabinet. I thought it was pretty sad, seing a guitar salesman not knowing how to hook up a simple head and cabinet.
 
getz76 said:
Do not make all the "mom and pop" stores out to be poor victims... plenty of those shops were the only game in town before Guitar Center and the internet and they spent decades ripping off folks with slim inventory and insane prices.

And some people like Elixir strings. I do. Do not be a string fascist.[/QUOTE

++1
 
getz76 said:
Do not make all the "mom and pop" stores out to be poor victims... plenty of those shops were the only game in town before Guitar Center and the internet and they spent decades ripping off folks with slim inventory and insane prices.

And some people like Elixir strings. I do. Do not be a string fascist.

I doubt very much you'd make such statements as these if you'd been on the other side of the counter for any meaningful period of time.
 
BassIan,

I can infer you are pointing towards the smaller retailers that were pushed out of the way when Guitar Center or Sam Ash came to town. This has always happened in retail, for years and years. It is the natural course. Some lose and some win. This stinks for the loser, but that is the way capitalism has worked; who can deliver value to a consumer at the best price?

Some consider value to equate to price. Others equate value to price and service. Guitar Center obviously caters to those who are looking for price and convenience, irregardless of service. The only way to compete in that arena is to cut costs. For Guitar Center, they can get better cost of goods due to volume and they do not have career salespeople, whereas a company like zZounds competes by not having retail space overhead.

There are plenty small shops that have survived; especially the ones that were able to differentiate themselves on things other than price. Bass Northwest. Bass Central. Victor's House of Music in Paramus, NJ (also has American Musical Supply catalog).

The shops that were not able to change or were unwilling to change... well, they went the way of Two Guys, Caldor, Bradlees, etc...

Do not blame the retailer, blame the consumer. Guitar Center's business plan would not work if people cared about top-notch service. Most folks are focused on price.

I am guessing you do not like Wal*Mart or Target, either? :)
 
If I were on the other side of the counter in my little local monopoly and selling everything at full retail for years and years, I would definitely be pissed to lose that market. Maybe not all, but there were quite a few local music stores ripping people off in the pre-GC days. I know that I got burnt by them back when I was a teen.

Just like individual GC stores, the quality of mom and pops varies with the people running them.
 
Rebuttal in no particular order, I have no personal beef with Elixirs. They just happen to be the most expensive set of strings you can buy for a bass in a standard music store (sure you could get spirocore or something but I am talking about GC) As far as whether they hold their twang, I find tehm to not have very much twang to lose, but they do age slower than D'addarios or GHS.
No I do not like stores such as Target, Starbucks, Walmart etc. Capitalism is not a panacea and it didn't "win". Providin the best value is not what chain stores do. What they do is allow the corporation (an increasingly transational entity which is subject to no laws) the ability to defray losses in a competitiive market by raising their prices in less competitive ones. So Starbucks can move into a market, undercut the competition until they are out of business, then raise their prices to recoup losses. Mom and pops do not have the ability to copmoete in this manner. Most of them end up closing their bric and mortar presence and going online, either in a significant capacity like some of the examples cited above, or in a ebay fashion.
The idea that there is a natural justice to capitalism is unreasonable. This is like assuming there is a natural justice to fistfights.
Yes I do blame the consumer. Good mom and pop music retailers are often the best place to find a competent guitar/amp tech. And a good place to get advice. A store that has weathered several decades may just have a guy that knows what the difference between a 12ax7 and a 12at7. I would love to see any of you guys that stick up for GC take your axes in there to get them worked on. Or your amps!
 
Calaverasgrande said:
Rebuttal in no particular order, I have no personal beef with Elixirs. They just happen to be the most expensive set of strings you can buy for a bass in a standard music store (sure you could get spirocore or something but I am talking about GC) As far as whether they hold their twang, I find tehm to not have very much twang to lose, but they do age slower than D'addarios or GHS.
No I do not like stores such as Target, Starbucks, Walmart etc. Capitalism is not a panacea and it didn't "win". Providin the best value is not what chain stores do. What they do is allow the corporation (an increasingly transational entity which is subject to no laws) the ability to defray losses in a competitiive market by raising their prices in less competitive ones. So Starbucks can move into a market, undercut the competition until they are out of business, then raise their prices to recoup losses. Mom and pops do not have the ability to copmoete in this manner. Most of them end up closing their bric and mortar presence and going online, either in a significant capacity like some of the examples cited above, or in a ebay fashion.
The idea that there is a natural justice to capitalism is unreasonable. This is like assuming there is a natural justice to fistfights.
Yes I do blame the consumer. Good mom and pop music retailers are often the best place to find a competent guitar/amp tech. And a good place to get advice. A store that has weathered several decades may just have a guy that knows what the difference between a 12ax7 and a 12at7. I would love to see any of you guys that stick up for GC take your axes in there to get them worked on. Or your amps!

1: I also prefer the Elixer strings. They work great with my main axe, a Warwick Corvette Std. 4. Takes a bit of the edge off of the instrument as opposed to the Warwick Black Labels I used to use. :)

2: You make it sound that if the Mom and Pop operation wouldn't do what the big corps do if their positions were reversed. Most big corps started as small mom and pop businesses.
Corps of all sizes are out to do one thing: Make money for their respective interested parties, weather they be shareholders or Mom and Pop socking away for a vacation to the Bahamas this year. There are a very few exceptions with people running businesses "because they love it", but these are VERY few and far between. In most things where you deal directly with the customer, there's simply not enough motivation to put up with the customer abuse and low margins to do it "for the love of it".

3: No one ever claimed that there was natural *JUSTICE* in the capitalist system. Just natural competition over the same resources, in this case customer dollars. The new player will (somewhat justifiably, IMO) reguard cost over all things, as typically, they aren't even shure if they're going to stick with the instrument. It's the second and third and (N) purchases that are going to be the ones that matter, and be considerably more profitable for those who get those dollars. This is where the smaller shops like Bass NW, the Bass Place, etc shine for those of us who are a little more discerning about what we want to use.

4: I agree about the tech and service thing. The Bass Place in Tempe AZ and Bass NW in Washington state are still in business partly because of their service and techs. Even with a Guitar Center in town.

To sum up: the big box store isn't the problem, it's just a (please not I did *NOT* say "the") solution to what the customer is asking for.
For any small, local store to survive, they're going to have to change something, weather it be the target clientel, the focus of their business, service/brand offerings, or some combination of these and/or other elements. They can't compete with the big box stores on cost, because they'll get crushed every time.
The small stores have several things going for them when competing against a big box store. Two of the primary advandages are flexibility and agility.
 
Calaverasgrande said:
Rebuttal in no particular order, I have no personal beef with Elixirs. They just happen to be the most expensive set of strings you can buy for a bass in a standard music store (sure you could get spirocore or something but I am talking about GC) As far as whether they hold their twang, I find tehm to not have very much twang to lose, but they do age slower than D'addarios or GHS.
No I do not like stores such as Target, Starbucks, Walmart etc. Capitalism is not a panacea and it didn't "win". Providin the best value is not what chain stores do. What they do is allow the corporation (an increasingly transational entity which is subject to no laws) the ability to defray losses in a competitiive market by raising their prices in less competitive ones. So Starbucks can move into a market, undercut the competition until they are out of business, then raise their prices to recoup losses. Mom and pops do not have the ability to copmoete in this manner. Most of them end up closing their bric and mortar presence and going online, either in a significant capacity like some of the examples cited above, or in a ebay fashion.
The idea that there is a natural justice to capitalism is unreasonable. This is like assuming there is a natural justice to fistfights.
Yes I do blame the consumer. Good mom and pop music retailers are often the best place to find a competent guitar/amp tech. And a good place to get advice. A store that has weathered several decades may just have a guy that knows what the difference between a 12ax7 and a 12at7. I would love to see any of you guys that stick up for GC take your axes in there to get them worked on. Or your amps!

Your computer is a product of a big corporation that crushed smaller ones. Do not perpetuate the injustice, get thee some string and two cups hippie!
 
Calaverasgrande said:
No I do not like stores such as Target, Starbucks, Walmart etc. Capitalism is not a panacea and it didn't "win". Providin the best value is not what chain stores do. What they do is allow the corporation (an increasingly transational entity which is subject to no laws) the ability to defray losses in a competitiive market by raising their prices in less competitive ones. So Starbucks can move into a market, undercut the competition until they are out of business, then raise their prices to recoup losses. Mom and pops do not have the ability to copmoete in this manner. Most of them end up closing their bric and mortar presence and going online, either in a significant capacity like some of the examples cited above, or in a ebay fashion.
The idea that there is a natural justice to capitalism is unreasonable. This is like assuming there is a natural justice to fistfights.
Yes I do blame the consumer. Good mom and pop music retailers are often the best place to find a competent guitar/amp tech. And a good place to get advice. A store that has weathered several decades may just have a guy that knows what the difference between a 12ax7 and a 12at7. I would love to see any of you guys that stick up for GC take your axes in there to get them worked on. Or your amps!

Here's my rebuttal. I've never seen a mom and pop store that could employ 120 people in a market. That's 120 people who can make a living dealing with something they love on a daily basis.
The town/area I came from had 4 "mom and pop" stores. Every single one of them claimed that the brand/brands they carried were far superior to any others. I was told by a particular "mom and pop" sales person that I didn't want to throw my money away on a Ken Smith because "the pretty woods are more expensive, but don't sound any better than this Peavey TL here."
Working at a Guitar Center (and I'm NOT on the sales staff) I've worked with some of the most knowledgable people I've ever met. I've also worked with some of the most idiotic crank-trees imaginable.
Mom and Pop's aren't better, they're just a microcosm of the larger retail stores. Don't fool yourself into thinking they aren't out for every buck they can get as well. If they are hashed-out hillbillies that can only make it without competition or a store with something important or different that will set them apart (like the aforementioned Bass NW or Bass Central) then they will get weeded out and rightly so.
This whole anti-establishment, anti-big business thing is all cool, but not really grounded in reality. Barring a nuclear war or natural disaster, big business won't go away. It will only be replaced by other franchises.
 
As if there aren't enough boards for people to argue about capitalism on... :hiding:
Anyway, there is one local GC. There is another local small chain near me, Skips Music (2, maybe 3 locations). There is Northridge Music, an independant buisness, and there is Basses Electric & Acoustic, again independant. If it wern't late, I would go on to name a few more, but point is GC has not really taken over the whole music instrument buisness with their ignorant employees.
 
I am not anti capitalism, I am against unfettered capitalism. There used to be this thing called the anti trust Law? (Clayton Act both passed by Congress in 1914) its never enforced anymore. And the neo-liberal (in an economic sense which includes George jr and sr in addition to Clinton) administrations are doing everything they can to make sure there are no impediments to cash flow for the large multinationals.
Do I expect to change the world by not shopping at starbucks, target or GC? no, but I also dont have to hold my nose when I purchase.
If you have well informed guys at your gc that is great. If you have local mom and pops that only carry one or two lines that is unfortunate. Again that is another area that GC cleans house with smaller companies because of their overwhelming size. Again, would you take your bass or bass amp to GC for service/repair?

I think it is bad for the consumer when a single entity is allowed to dominate a market. Right now it is just GC/Musicians Friend. What if they merged with Sam Ash? This is pretty much the case in the computer world. Microsoft runs all the desktops except for a declining fraction that run linux or Mac (BSD). They run all the servers except for a declining fraction that run Solaris, or Linux. Has the usability of computers improved in the last 6 years? Has the cost of licenses gone up?
 
Albuquerque

Guitar Center -- crap and full of morons

Mom and Pop store that made it Grandmas music and Sound Invalid Link Removed -- Constantly meets or beats Music123 or Musicians Fiend for prices.

Case in point 799 bucks for an American Preicison Deluxe V

995 for an SR5 ---

They will loan out a guitar or amp for you to try out. Used items are exceptional deals

Micky and Patty Patten owners