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Gulf oil spill. Help me understand.

#81
aborgman said:
Sorry - I just don't buy it.

We cannot, no matter what we open up, increase our petroleum production 50%.

We can, it would just run in the 10s, if not 100s of trillions to do so


Not really, no. I'm generally of the opinion that if we're going to continue to use oil at high levels instead of replacing it, it's smart to use everyone elses oil while it's cheap and available.



You mean off the Cuban coast, in Cuban territorial waters.

International waters off of the Florida coast, as well

The smartest thing we can do as a national security matter is USE LESS OIL. What is really best for national security is hoarding our oil supplies and depleting everyone else.

We could save way more oil than ANWR could produce just be improving fleet fuel economy 10%.
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I've been working in the shipping/offshore industry for a few years now, and even during Katrina, I did not see a scare on the Gulf Coast like this. We're on the verge of shutting down the 9th largest port in the nation (Mobile, AL), and discussions are in place on how to avoid totally shutting down the Lower Mississippi River (LMR), but no one is very optimistic at this point. So far, the only redeeming quality over this accident vs. the Exxon Valdez that everyone remembers so painfully tis that this is in a MUCH more accessible and much heavier manned, though ecologically more fragile region.

There are some out there calling for the total banning of offshore drilling. How do they feel about the shipping industry and moving gas/oil by tanker? From April 1st to April 25th there were 32 incidents around the world involving environmental contamination by some form of tanker/vessel casualty (yes, 32 vessel casualties in 25 days. This is pretty normal considering how many of these vessels are in operation globally). The Deepwater Horizon was only 1 of those 32, and the first incident in quite a few years in US waters. Yes, it is on a much larger scale than these other incidents, but that should not negate their occurrence. If we are to stop offshore drilling, are we to stop the use of tanker vessels and barges as well?

Rant over, please keep the Gulf Coast in your thoughts. This area has weathered the recession fairly well, but a catastrophic even like this has the potential to be, coupled with the approaching hurricane season, can really screw us over and completely collapse some industries that were barely holding on to begin with.
 
#82
bassrique said:
We're talking about cutting the oil imports of countries "that hate us" [via increased domestic production]. Most of our imported oil is from Canada and Mexico, and last time I checked, we're friends.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but cutting OPEC out of the picture is quite doable [with the notable exception of Venezuela]. I'll come back this evening with facts.

Oh, I'm talking about natural gas as well, as we have lots of that.
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this.....not to mention, that when the price of oil is down, new well drilling is halted until oil futures show a rise in price. the drilling companies will "stack out" their land rigs until the price is favorable again.
 
#84
john turner said:
seriously? how far inland are you?
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Yes. "Inland" is difficult to define here when you see how far out the mouth of the Mississippi is. I'm in Slidell, LA. Pretty far, really, from any actual oil but the smell is here again this morning thanks to winds form the south. I'm cancelling my quick mini-vacation to [DEL]Biloxi[/DEL](I'ma moron) Mobile Bay next weekend and I figure it'll much worse by then, even if the oil hasn't reached the bay.

Mike

EDIT: I'd like to add that this situation is seriously ****ed. LA doesn't have a "coast" as you traditionally think of one. Google maps the area. It's hundreds of small marsh "islands" with channels cut and criss-crossing everywhere giving oil a chance to be pushed pretty far into the area.
 
#88
mike_v_s said:
Yes. "Inland" is difficult to define here when you see how far out the mouth of the Mississippi is. I'm in Slidell, LA. Pretty far, really, from any actual oil but the smell is here again this morning thanks to winds form the south. I'm cancelling my quick mini-vacation to Biloxi Bay next weekend and I figure it'll much worse by then, even if the oil hasn't reached the bay.

Mike

EDIT: I'd like to add that this situation is seriously ****ed. LA doesn't have a "coast" as you traditionally think of one. Google maps the area. It's hundreds of small marsh "islands" with channels cut and criss-crossing everywhere giving oil a chance to be pushed pretty far into the area.
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i_got_a_mohawk said:
Dont know if it's been mentioned here, but there are reports of the oil apparently hitting the shores now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8653162.stm
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I hate that you're having to cancel a vacation, Mike. Gulf Shores, AL is going to be majorly screwed if anything continues to wash up, as they are hosting a 3-day music festival right on the beach in 2 weeks. Its their first one, but they're hoping to make it an annual event and they've spent something like $10 Mil on this one already trying to get it to take off.

Attached are NOAA projections as of yesterday. I've got more detailed, but the file is too large to attach here. I'll try to get the updates up a little later. They're giving the shipping industry more details than they're putting on their website, so I'll see if I can get those up here.
 

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#89
RWP said:
Am not... :spit:
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:D


RWP said:
I understand we only a few hundred years away from fusion! :hyper:
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It may be closer than you think: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/04/28/laser.fusion.nif/index.html?iref=allsearch

hbarcat said:
A few things to ponder:

--Oil has a tendency to spill, polluting the water, and it adds to atmospheric CO2

--Coal is dangerous to mine and it pollutes the air and adds to atmospheric CO2

--All refined fossil fuels pollute the air and water to some extent and add to atmospheric CO2

--Nuclear power creates radioactive waste that remains toxic for thousands of years and can be made into nuclear weapons

--Alcohol and other renewable fuels are prohibitively expensive to produce in great quantities at our current level of technology

--Solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric and other "green" technologies aren't capable of providing enough power for our modern needs




The bottom line is there is no good solution to our energy problems. We can only pick and choose among numerous imperfect alternatives and do our best to deal with the inevitable consequences.
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ALL combustion reactions, by definition, release CO2. The impact of man-made sources on the environment have yet to be determined, though there is much speculation. Tremendous amounts of CO2 are released from natural sources every year as well.

The bottom line is: aint nothin' free. Pretty much anything you do is going to decrease the exergy and increase the entropy of the universe. Physics is a jerk like that.

Something to ponder:

artificial.png
 
#92
SoComSurfing said:
I hate that you're having to cancel a vacation, Mike. Gulf Shores, AL is going to be majorly screwed if anything continues to wash up, as they are hosting a 3-day music festival right on the beach in 2 weeks. Its their first one, but they're hoping to make it an annual event and they've spent something like $10 Mil on this one already trying to get it to take off.

Attached are NOAA projections as of yesterday. I've got more detailed, but the file is too large to attach here. I'll try to get the updates up a little later. They're giving the shipping industry more details than they're putting on their website, so I'll see if I can get those up here.
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Yeah. We've sorta made a tradition of going to The Grand in Point Clear/Fairhope. Very relaxing. They have a separate pool (negating any beach issues), but the smell sucks here and I'm not gonna drop $$ to get closer to it, ya know?

Mike
 
#96
PSPookie said:
I belive he meant "error" in the engineering sense. That is: the opperator was not using the device within the design parameters, regardless of whether or not it was intentional.
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It should be noted that while BP will ultimately be liable for most of this because they leased the area, the rights to drill and anyone there would legally be considered a contract employee working under their direction, Transocean was the well "operator", meaning the rig and personnel on site were theirs.

Mike
 

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