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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)
- Thread starter Kevin Hsieh
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Great stuff right there. Your son is a monster! That Lenzner/Sensicore combo doesn't sound bad at all...
Thanks for the nice comments, folks! I'm very proud of Alex, he's a fine songwriter and a decent piano player too.
Kevin -- Alex told me that he met you in LA, and that you have a mutual friend, Devon Hoffman.
Kevin -- Alex told me that he met you in LA, and that you have a mutual friend, Devon Hoffman.
Great stuff right there. Your son is a monster! That Lenzner/Sensicore combo doesn't sound bad at all...
+1 the bass (and the player!) sounded great. Just goes to show it's more about how you learn to play those guts than how expensive the guts are.
So, I wait. I have a full set of guts, thanks to my generous TB brethren, sitting in a package by my night stand. But I've decided to hold off installing them until after "The Show" towards the end of August. It's just too high profile, and I want to be totally comfortable with my setup at this one. I suppose I'm a coward, but I think it's the right decision. Probably, I'll play the gig, listen to the playbacks, and think "Damn.... that would have sounded great on guts". I drive myself nuts sometimes (along with all of you).
I want to get into this gut thing with a clear head. After "The Show", I have a recording date with Benoit Jazz Works, and he's going for a vintage, low key sound on this one. So, I'm thinking I'll try to be up and running for that one.
I drive myself nuts sometimes (along with all of you). I want to get into this gut thing with a clear head. After "The Show", I have a recording date with Benoit Jazz Works, and he's going for a vintage, low key sound on this one. So, I'm thinking I'll try to be up and running for that one.
Sorry if this has already been asked on this topic but are gut strings louder than steel strings in a purely acoustic setting? The reason i ask is that i played in a trad jazz group today and we had two bassist, a sousaphone and a double bassist using steel strings and i could'nt hear him at all, the sousaphone was really clear though.
So, I wait. I have a full set of guts, thanks to my generous TB brethren, sitting in a package by my night stand. But I've decided to hold off installing them until after "The Show" towards the end of August. It's just too high profile, and I want to be totally comfortable with my setup at this one. I suppose I'm a coward, but I think it's the right decision. Probably, I'll play the gig, listen to the playbacks, and think "Damn.... that would have sounded great on guts".
I want to get into this gut thing with a clear head. After "The Show", I have a recording date with Benoit Jazz Works, and he's going for a vintage, low key sound on this one. So, I'm thinking I'll try to be up and running for that one.
I think this is a good call. You have no idea what's going to happen when you switch over. You may need to a make adjustments to your pickup/amp rig. You will certainly have to learn how to deal with a different touch. You'll probably have to adapt your style to the stings a bit. None of which is that hard to learn how to do but to give yourself only 3 weeks to get everything down is asking a lot. And, if you are like me, you're going to fall on your face a couple of times. And, while each time is a learning experience, it is MUCH better to have these "learning experiences" during low pressure club dates than in front a TV audience.
Plus you have to deal with serious humidity. The humidity here is only 55-60% but I'm almost ready to consider thinking about proposing to myself the concept of going back to steel strings until September (ok, not really). My bass turns into a thumpy tubby mess when I go outside. Going from air conditioning to outside and the bass freaks out for an hour or more. I've been using a Schertler Stat B pickup and it sounds great or did but the humidity change makes the little cork swell and strangle the sound out of the amp. I tried a Planet Waves pickup and it makes the D, A and E sound incredible but the G sucks with it. Since the G is my single most used string, this is a serious drawback.
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It depends on what you mean by loud. The bass I switched over to gut from steel really isn't any louder than it was before but you can hear it better in an ensemble because of where it sits in the mix. Steel strings have a lot of midrange power but those frequencies have to compete with all of the other instruments' midrange. Amplified that isn't a problem but unamplified the bass can get masked. Gut strings predominantly have a very strong fundamental and tend to sit under the other instruments. Having it's own space to live in makes it easier to hear and gives it the illusion that it is louder. In the situation you describe above, you'd probably hear a gut string bass a little better.
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Thanks, I needed that!
I played with the idea of installing the Gamuts up top, and leaving the Evahs on the bottom until after The Show. I still might do that, and go full frontal afterwards. It's a hard decision, because the bass sounds really good with the EPs on. And Willie's new album, from which we'll be playing tunes, featured Christian McBride on bass, along with Joe Sample and Lewis Nash. So it may not be the best time to make the switch.
I'm not sure how much the humidity will affect things... I guess I'll find out. There are lots of guys playing Hawaiian music on ancient guts here... but tuning isn't always Priority One in those cases.
It depends on the bass, the player, the room, the other musicians, etc. But this is usually the case. Gut strings are louder. Most basses seem to like the lesser tension and opens up sound and volumewise. I haven't used an amp for over a year now (I've sometimes used a mic into the house
).
I'm continuing to really enjoy the Lenzner/Sensicore combo on my bass. The Lenzner guts are perfectly fine IMO. The only complaint I have is that the D is a little loose in tension. I went ahead and tried a Gamut medium G again, (sold it already ). It did have more tension, but in the end I prefer the Lenzner for a few reasons: The tone is brighter -- the Gamut sounds duller and less sustaining. The Gamut is louder, but it booms and overpowers the other strings. The Lenzner diameter is smaller and fits into the existing bridge and nut slots without modification, the Gamut is sitting high on the bridge and I'd really have to widen/deepen the D slot. In the past I can remember getting the best results with guts that weren't as thick, and this is consistant. So the only thing that could improve would be a D of the same thickness, but with more tension...
Also, I've been getting better at bowing on the plain guts. Have I found "string peace", will I stop fussing?
). It did have more tension, but in the end I prefer the Lenzner for a few reasons: The tone is brighter -- the Gamut sounds duller and less sustaining. The Gamut is louder, but it booms and overpowers the other strings. The Lenzner diameter is smaller and fits into the existing bridge and nut slots without modification, the Gamut is sitting high on the bridge and I'd really have to widen/deepen the D slot. In the past I can remember getting the best results with guts that weren't as thick, and this is consistant. So the only thing that could improve would be a D of the same thickness, but with more tension...Also, I've been getting better at bowing on the plain guts. Have I found "string peace", will I stop fussing?
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I'm still using the Gamut G/Anima mix on the plywood and don't really know how long I'll play this game. The feel and tone is just SO much different than the mittels on the old flatback, both in a good and bad way. I used the ply on an outdoor trio gig tonight and wished I had brought the other bass. Talk about thud, thud, thud......The G does have a nice snap to it, but it is beginning to feel a little sticky and it slowed me down quite a bit. I have a couple gigs this month with a jump blues band so I'll leave the setup alone for those gigs, but I suspect the experiment has run it's course.
Mittels are a great string and I may just have them on both basses by labor day.
Mittels are a great string and I may just have them on both basses by labor day.
Been experimenting with bowing on these guts.
I've started recording myself on my webcam bowing. The sound quality is decent if you want to get an idea of the sound I'm getting. Using Nyman's rosin and a german bow i'm borrowing from David Wong.
Gamut Lyon G and D and Garbo A and E.
If I Loved You (ballad)
i have no classical experience on bass. though i do hope 10 years of violin has some help...
I've started recording myself on my webcam bowing. The sound quality is decent if you want to get an idea of the sound I'm getting. Using Nyman's rosin and a german bow i'm borrowing from David Wong.
Gamut Lyon G and D and Garbo A and E.
If I Loved You (ballad)
i have no classical experience on bass. though i do hope 10 years of violin has some help...
keep at it. i HATED my strings in the beginning. wanted to take them off the day of. my friend's convinced me to stick with it for a week or so. after a couple adjustments and some time in the shed, i was in love
- May 3, 2007
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- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: D'Addario Strings, Remic Microphones
Sorry guys. Gut week '09 is officially over. To paraphrase Uncle Toad, they one one thing very well. I just couldn't get them to resonate with some of the more gymnastic feats which have become part of my rep. Put the Velvets back on and they sound great!
All that being said, I try guts about once a year and I must say that they do help me figure out a couple of thing vis a vis tone production, left hand attack and bowing technique. Guts are definitely worth a try for any aspiring bassist. Whether or not you stay there is up to the individual.
Keep it grooving!
All that being said, I try guts about once a year and I must say that they do help me figure out a couple of thing vis a vis tone production, left hand attack and bowing technique. Guts are definitely worth a try for any aspiring bassist. Whether or not you stay there is up to the individual.
Keep it grooving!
On the other hand, for me, having guts back on my bass is like "Ah, home again!" I love the tone and feel, and I'm not struggling to hear myself on gigs. What I've been working on, and making some progress, is arco on gut. That was my primary issue in the past.
i'm loving the arco sound on gut. i like it a lot better than the arco sound on steel. the only problem is that switching between the gut and the garbo is tough. two different frictions. it's also hard to not sound like PC. not that that's bad
see above post for some videos of the sound i'm getting.
Yeah, you too... The first thing I tried to play as soon as I got my bow a few weeks ago. (I wonder how many of us here went straight for the bow and bass as soon as we saw the Ray Brown clip...) ;-)
Interesting. I find them EASIER to do the gymnastics on although it took a lot of practice to get the touch down. I goofed around on my steel string the other day and while was nice to have a buzzy, growly tone again, it was noticeably harder to get around on. I think guts do more than one thing well now too although I shared your opinion initially.
Hey, I tried guts twice in the past and gave up on them for the same reasons you gave before finally making what is looking like a permanent switch to them. Now I can't imagine going back.
I'd like to give the Lenzner G and D a try. I'm thinking about getting a set for my steel string bass.
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