- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I try to hide that one. Reading it makes me nuts.watch out with "hop on pop"
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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part II)
- Thread starter Gearhead43
- Start date
"Bartholomew And The Oobleck"
I vote yes, it's worth it to try guts, if only to stop that nagging question that'll be in the back of your mind if you never do. Works out fantastically well for some of us. It's been a remarkable change for the better for me..... more than I could have ever expected.
There was a time before I made the switch on my own bass, when I played a show on a road trip, on a borrowed plywood bass, strung with guts. I started playing it, and the guitar player said "look at the smile on that guy". He was right.
Some of us are maybe a little more predisposed to that sound. I wasn't always, I used to really hear the steel sound in my head. Somewhere along the line, I remembered what really got me into the sound of the bass, when I was kid listening to my Dad's vinyl, and that led me back to the guts. With the modern guts that are available now, I don't feel that I am making any concessions to "old technology" by choosing to play guts. It just seems as though they help me to find the voice in my head, and complete the picture of what bass playing is for me.
I vote yes, it's worth it to try guts, if only to stop that nagging question that'll be in the back of your mind if you never do. Works out fantastically well for some of us. It's been a remarkable change for the better for me..... more than I could have ever expected.
There was a time before I made the switch on my own bass, when I played a show on a road trip, on a borrowed plywood bass, strung with guts. I started playing it, and the guitar player said "look at the smile on that guy". He was right.
Some of us are maybe a little more predisposed to that sound. I wasn't always, I used to really hear the steel sound in my head. Somewhere along the line, I remembered what really got me into the sound of the bass, when I was kid listening to my Dad's vinyl, and that led me back to the guts. With the modern guts that are available now, I don't feel that I am making any concessions to "old technology" by choosing to play guts. It just seems as though they help me to find the voice in my head, and complete the picture of what bass playing is for me.
I have a question for those that are playing guts now and touring. We spent so much time and so much energy talking, thinking, adjusting, and finally getting "OUR' sound. But what happens if you go on tour? Do you have a rider that asks for a bass strung with guts? Or do you just play the best bass that is available, even if it is merely strung with mittels.
I sat in on a friend's bass the other night (a ply Cleveland strung with Mittels) and it was so tight, it hurt my hand. I also couldn't do anything to get rid of the mwaaaah sound. Completely changed the way I played and approached soloing.
Another question: does anyone experience this effect - soloing changes based on sound and the setup of the bass? If so, what do you do to retain your own personality. I end up trying to play faster lines on basses that have lower setup and end up tripping over myself. It has come to the point where I've decided to only take walking solos, which doesn't experience that much of a change.
I sat in on a friend's bass the other night (a ply Cleveland strung with Mittels) and it was so tight, it hurt my hand. I also couldn't do anything to get rid of the mwaaaah sound. Completely changed the way I played and approached soloing.
Another question: does anyone experience this effect - soloing changes based on sound and the setup of the bass? If so, what do you do to retain your own personality. I end up trying to play faster lines on basses that have lower setup and end up tripping over myself. It has come to the point where I've decided to only take walking solos, which doesn't experience that much of a change.
- May 6, 2003
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I have gotten into the habit of saying "work with what you've got" a lot.
Find your art in whatever you pick up. Your expression is your own and unique. Equipment can suggest or prohibit some aspects of your expression for the evening but if you "work with what you've got" you'll always be musical and engaging.
Instead of being annoyed at what you don't have if you "work with what you've got" you'll always find something cool and the listener will dig the positive vibe instead of being distanced by your frustration.
Find your art in whatever you pick up. Your expression is your own and unique. Equipment can suggest or prohibit some aspects of your expression for the evening but if you "work with what you've got" you'll always be musical and engaging.
Instead of being annoyed at what you don't have if you "work with what you've got" you'll always find something cool and the listener will dig the positive vibe instead of being distanced by your frustration.
That sums it up for me too.
I just run what they brung. Piano players deal with it all the time, so I do the same.
I just run what they brung. Piano players deal with it all the time, so I do the same.
I dig. Thanks Toad and Marcus. Great advice from two people i truly look up to
I use a removable neck bass when I tour (thanks Mr Tucker!). Currently it's strung with spiros.
I've been thinking about chucking plain Gamuts on the G and D, any ideas how they'd hold up under the strain of constant assembly and disassembly?
I've been thinking about chucking plain Gamuts on the G and D, any ideas how they'd hold up under the strain of constant assembly and disassembly?
Man... are you hip to the pianist Rainer Bruninghaus? Years ago, I saw him in a club in Wisconsin with Eberhard Weber (and Charlie Mariano
frickin' unbelievable) , playing a crappy upright piano that wasn't worthy of a church basement, let alone a club. Busted notes, hadn't been tuned since the Crimean War. Disgusting piano.He redefined "work with what you've got". He was brilliant. He actually used the bad notes to set up drones, and the busted notes became percussive effects in his hands. All of this without even a scintilla of a complaint from him. He just played his ass off. I'll never forget that as long as I live. What a class act.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
That's what I'm sayin!Man... are you hip to the pianist Rainer Bruninghaus? Years ago, I saw him in a club in Wisconsin with Eberhard Weber (and Charlie Mariano
He redefined "work with what you've got". He was brilliant. He actually used the bad notes to set up drones, and the busted notes became percussive effects in his hands. All of this without even a scintilla of a complaint from him. He just played his ass off. I'll never forget that as long as I live. What a class act.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I don't tour (at least not anymore) so I can't help you there. Anytime I think I miss Mittels, I pull out my Kolstein Travel Bass (still strung with Mittels). After 15 minutes, my finger tips are sore and I get over it. Seriously, there are times when I miss Mittels. When I'm playing the melody on tunes, I miss the midrange zing and singing sustain of Mittels. I also miss them when I'm playing non-jazz gigs. I like the way Mittels sit in a rock,folk or pop mix.
The sound of the bass has a HUGE effect on my soloing. It's the main reason I went to gut strings. I wanted (and got) some of that Scott LaFaro thing. You can play LaFaro or LaFaro-like lines on a bass strung with Mittels but it comes out sounding a little too much like Jaco on an upright for my tastes. At least that's how it worked out for me. I might be a little too sensitive to it though because I switched from EB to DB because Jaco was such a big influence on my EB playing that I felt like I didn't have my own personality. When I started DB, I couldn't play the Jaco stuff on the upright and had to come up with my own stuff.
Anyway, I play the sound as much as the pitches and rhythms. If the sound is right, I can play anything. My whole personality comes out of the sound of the instrument. If it isn't working, I end up struggling and fighting the instrument. I've found that I get my sound with gut most of the time with a lot less effort than I did when playing Mittels.
mark
The thing with touring basses is; for most of the audience, nobody knows or cares if it's guts or steels, or even if it's a pedigreed bass or a beat-to-**** ply bass. It's just my sworn duty to play the crap out of whatever it is.
whenever I can't fly with my bass and not even my travel bass, I always bring with me a gut G and D (Emerson) to put in whatever rental bass I find in the venue. That's what I am also doing tomorrow at the London Jazz festival.
Wow, that's cool. Have you run into problems with setups and slot widths at all? A lot of basses I play on the road are set up like bass guitars.... waaay low.
problems sometimes...yes...but most of the times it works, as long as there's an adjustable bridge. I recently played in a club called "body & soul" in Tokyo and they rented the ex Ray Brown's bass...at least the instrument he kept in Japan for his tours. It's a pretty old german factory bass, very even sounding all across the fingerboard. It had mittels and it was ok but with the upper 2 guts I had much more fun !!!!!
I don't know if continuing input is valuable on this thread for most people. Sorry if I bore.
I'm waiting for a downside to all of this gut nonsense. When I play, which is pretty much every night, I really try to be devil's advocate, look for a chink in the armor. So far, it has not arisen for me. I thought that I would have to deal with a lot of strange voodoo to make the transition... but it's been painless with the Gamuts. They are simply the best strings I've played. If Mark is married to them, I'm the guy having an affair with his ex wives. The only thing that remains is to try the E & A, see how the set is. It's a little weird (in a good way) to have a revelation like this after all these years. Old dog, new tricks.
Mmmmm... Koolaid is good.
I'm waiting for a downside to all of this gut nonsense. When I play, which is pretty much every night, I really try to be devil's advocate, look for a chink in the armor. So far, it has not arisen for me. I thought that I would have to deal with a lot of strange voodoo to make the transition... but it's been painless with the Gamuts. They are simply the best strings I've played. If Mark is married to them, I'm the guy having an affair with his ex wives.
The only thing that remains is to try the E & A, see how the set is. It's a little weird (in a good way) to have a revelation like this after all these years. Old dog, new tricks.Mmmmm... Koolaid is good.
I don't know if continuing input is valuable on this thread for most people. Sorry if I bore.
I'm waiting for a downside to all of this gut nonsense. When I play, which is pretty much every night, I really try to be devil's advocate, look for a chink in the armor. So far, it has not arisen for me. I thought that I would have to deal with a lot of strange voodoo to make the transition... but it's been painless with the Gamuts. They are simply the best strings I've played. If Mark is married to them, I'm the guy having an affair with his ex wives.
Mmmmm... Koolaid is good.
I think I have a slightly more nuanced view of guts. I love them and can't see ever switching back to steel and by "steel", I mean Spiro Mittels. Kool Aid drunk. That said, I've found a few circumstances where I'd prefer Spiros. One is playing louder non-jazz pop/rock/folk gigs. Guts are nice and usable in those situations but I really like the way Spiros sit in the mix. Since 99.9% of my gigs are jazz gigs, it's not that big of a deal though. And while it comes in spurts, I do a fair bit of session work for those kinds of musics as well and Spiros sound great in those mixes. The guts get a bit lost in heavy mixes. I'm seriously thinking about putting Spiros with a Dom G on my '74 bass for recording.
The other is in playing melodies. The overtones of Spiros really make melody playing sing in a way that guts don't plus Spiros have a lot of power in those frequencies so the melodies pop out nicely. That said, I just moved the Pistoy D from the '74 over to the '28 (the main bass) replacing the Lyon D that was on there and I couldn't stop playing today. It sounds AMAZING. That Pistoy D really sings in thumb position in a way the Lyon just doesn't. I've got a rehearsal on Wednesday and a gig on Friday and a whole bunch of gigs in the weeks coming up so I'm totally stoked to road test it.
mark
