Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

[P.Waite]

P Waite.... I have a friend who uses Garbos on his road bass (Eminence with removable neck). He chose them for the sound, but also for their stability on the road, and he seemed happy with them. In my experience, the unwound Gamut tops are very stable... so I think you should be in pretty good shape. If I were doing road work now, I'd probably put Animas on the bottom for their bowability and their similarity in sound to the Gamut copper lowers... but the idea is the same.

Thanks Marcus- yeah, I've been using this setup for a little while now and have been cross-country with it. On the road, the Garbos are pretty rock solid for me while the Gamuts have to be tuned fairly often, although they seem to hold up for at least the duration of a set. I have learned to love bowing the Gamut/Garbo mix as well- it seems pretty well balanced and while the Garbos' bowed sound won't win any awards it's just fine for the limited Blanton/Slam Stewart arco stuff I lean toward.

 

[Mark Perna]

I know Mark Perna used to plug a tuner into his amp, always ready to go, when he was playing guts. I always just grabbed a handful of tuning keys when necessary (I've never used an electronic tuner)... but that seems like a good idea.

Still do. I just plug it into the effect out, turn it on and forget about it. I can tune (even in noisy rooms where I can't hear myself very well) by simply looking down at the amp.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I think that's pretty prudent. You could use it if you need it, or just use the old ears. It's good to have options.

 

[Mark Perna]

I've never been a big tuner user either and found that when I had one plugged in all the time I got caught up in always looking at it.

I just have a little electronic tuner (Korg I think--it cost about $20). I plug it into the effects out of the AI Focus and sit it on top of the amp itself. No racks. I use it at the beginning of the gig with the amp in mute and everyone is warming up making lots of noise. The nice thing about it is if, in the middle of the maelstrom, something doesn't sound quite right but you can't quite hear yourself well enough to zero in on it, you can take a quick look down and check out your tuning and adjust. It's also good when you're breaking in a new string and it's stretching like Gumby on a hot day. Generally, though, once I'm in tune, I don't look at it again until the beginning of the next set.

mark

 

[Marc Piane]

I have the same tuner and hook it up is mostly the same way. In theory it is a great idea. I end up peeking back to see how my intonation is. I just had to go cold turkey. My own neurosis.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

I just have a little electronic tuner (Korg I think--it cost about $20). I plug it into the effects out of the AI Focus and sit it on top of the amp itself. No racks. I use it at the beginning of the gig with the amp in mute and everyone is warming up making lots of noise. The nice thing about it is if, in the middle of the maelstrom, something doesn't sound quite right but you can't quite hear yourself well enough to zero in on it, you can take a quick look down and check out your tuning and adjust. It's also good when you're breaking in a new string and it's stretching like Gumby on a hot day. Generally, though, once I'm in tune, I don't look at it again until the beginning of the next set.

mark

I do the same thing sometimes when I use a DI to a PA-
balanced out to the board
regular out to a Korg tuner
No amp

 

[engedi1]

I use a TC electronics RH450 with an amazing built in tuner that displays on the amp as well as footpedal. you just click the mute button between tunes, tune your bass while looking down at your pedal, the audience has no idea. Since I got this amp, I don't worry about tuners anymore.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Sounds like a great solution.... if you're playing amplified.

 

[engedi1]

True that. I always seem to be playing amplified so it works for me.

 

[HateyMcAmp]

So, I might just have to jump back into this fold. I really, really like my Animas E through D, but the G has me wanting to try something else, both pizz and arco. If you were to try a Gamut Pistoy G with that set, what gauge do you think? I don't like the Garbo Light D and a plain D doesn't really work for me...

I'm thinking a Medium+? I had a Medium+ Lyon that felt good, and it wouldn't be too much bigger than the Anima D. I'm worried a Light+ or Medium might be a little too soft...

 

[Marc Piane]

I'm using Anima E and A and Gamut Lyon Med D and Heavy G. I had a Med G and it was a little light for my hands.

 

[Mark Perna]

I've been using a med Pistoy G. I could probably go up in size but I'm really used to the medium. I think if you are switching over from a steel string, the lighter gut strings can make the transition a bit harder tactilely than going to a heavier gut string with more tension. I also think that if you are using an Anima D, you'll need as stiff a gut string as you can get so the tension difference between the D and G doesn't drive you buggy. I'd go with a medium + or heavy Pistoy. It should match with the Anima D tonally fairly well.

After you get used to the Pistoy G, you might want to spring for the Pistoy D (light or light+) which will match the G even better and matches nicely with the Anima A and E as well.

 

[HateyMcAmp]

You know, I should probably just try the Pistoy D. My biggest complaints with my Lyon D were a slowness of response and a lack of usefulness up the neck, and I've been thinking that I owe it to myself to try a plain gut D that seems to provide a solution to those problems. Generally speaking, do the higher gauge Gamuts respond quicker?

 

[Mark Perna]

You know, I should probably just try the Pistoy D. My biggest complaints with my Lyon D were a slowness of response and a lack of usefulness up the neck, and I've been thinking that I owe it to myself to try a plain gut D that seems to provide a solution to those problems. Generally speaking, do the higher gauge Gamuts respond quicker?

I don't know about response. They have a bigger sound. The lower gauge strings have a more focused sound though. I use a light Pistoy D. I haven't tried a medium. I did try a medium Lyon D and then tried a light Lyon D and found the light Lyon D to be a little more focused. The trade-off was it also has less tension and had less of the "phat" sound to it. I went to a light Pistoy D and never looked back. The light Pistoy D sounds a lot like a lower pitched Lyon G. At the time I was using a Lyon G and they matched beautifully. I later went to the Pistoy G (medium) which responds and recovers faster making soloing and walking fast lines a bit easier. 20 choruses of Donna Lee at 300 bpm is a lot easier with Pistoys than Lyons. The trade-off is I don't think the Pistoy G has quite the richness of sound that the Lyon G has.

mark

 

[HateyMcAmp]

Thanks for the info, Mark. I just watched your youtube gut improv video, and it seems like one can get around pretty well on them and utilize a two-finger pizz right hand technique. I was particularly impressed with how you could go from the Anima A to the Pistoy D in thumb while keeping the timbre and volume consistent. Of course the hands might have something to do with it. You had me grinning when you hinted at "softly"...

I currently have three steady gigs. A string band that does bluegrass and americana music with a progressive bent, a trad jazz band that does pre-bop standards and originals in that style, and a singer-songwriter project with parts that were frankly written for a BG. So while I totally want that gut tone again, I need to play at blazing tempos and do some funky off-the-beat stuff. My lyons used to bottom out easy when things got fast and funky. I sure can play fast on my Anima uppers and the tone is pretty good, but I did the gut thing long enough (about nine months?) to know what I'm missing tone-wise and projection-wise. I actually prefer the gut arco sound to the Anima uppers arco sound, particularly on the G. I've had two tours of duty with Animas on the bottom, and they are THE E and A for my current bass both arco and pizz.

When my $ game gets a little more flexible, I think I might just get the two pistoys (light D, medium G.) If I need to go back to a full set of Velvets afterward, I'll at least know I left no stone unturned.

 

[engedi1]

I too just watched that vid. Awesome Mark! Where is your action at? I noticed you were able to play notes with your thump, unsupported, and get a little vibrato! You couldn't do that with spiros, or even with high action guts I wouldn't think.

 

[Mark Perna]

Thanks guys. String height varies with the season a little but the G is about 7 mm which is where I had Spiros. String height on gut has a huge effect on sound. Keep it low and you get a more focused, direct sound. Raise it up and you get a more traditional gut sound. I like it low because it is really easy to get around the bass and I get a kind of approximation of a Scott LaFaro-like sound.

I could do most of that stuff in thumb with Spiros but it is a LOT easier with gut plus you get that "thup" at the beginning of the note. I think Spiros get a little whiny up in thumb position (particularly when amplified).

mark

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Agh... I give up.

I love the sound of the gut lowers but the tuning issues is killing me. Last thing I need is strings going a half-step off every tune - even with allowing the bass to sit and try to adjust to the temps. Gonna try to keep the Olive's but with Animas for the lowers instead like how Marc is doing it.

 

[Marc Piane]

I really dig Animas now but give them a few weeks to settle in. They are pretty zingy fresh out of the package. Tension-wise they match great and tonally they do to, once they break in a bit.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Yeah I know... I've had a set before. I'm thinking a full set might actually sound good on my bass as it's kinda dark as well. Waiting for them to arrive in the mail.