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Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!
- Thread starter Marc Piane
- Start date
So Dec. 31. a set of all gut Lenzners came with the mail. I put them on as quickly as possible, had to drill the hole in the peg bigger for the E-string though. Tried them at a rehearsal today, and I think it is "my thing". The dealmaker is almost the plain gut E. Its presence in the room when plucked. I think due to the amount of harmonics. Not high, "metally" ones, but low, midrange. And the "thud" attack. I happily trade in some sustain. But here is what stressed me a bit. The G string sounded and felt a bit too thin and trebly to me, and I ended up putting back on my Garbo light G, which is closer in heavyness to the other strings. I have ordered a Velvet gut G and hope I will like that better. Or perhaps an Efrano "stark" G string could be the solution, but I could not right away find a dealer for those here in Europe.
Edit: Just go to Efrano online themselves.
Edit: Just go to Efrano online themselves.
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I've played both varnished and unvarnished strings arco- all Gamut Pistoys. If there is a difference, I can't tell.
The only guts I've played are the two sets of Lenzners I've had. But IME they gotta stay on for a good week *at least* before they sound right - the G included! The Velvet G might sound better anyhow, so what do I know 
Today a package with a Garbo gut G, and a Efrano Stark G arrived. The look very different than the Lenzner. Especially the Efrano looks to have the thickenss that could give me the "weight" i seemed to be missing in the Lenzner. Also it has a much more polished, smooth surface. As does the Garbo, which is somewhat thinner and lighter, looking almost like a nylon string. With a recording comming up on friday, I think I will have to exert patience. The Garbo light G I have on is working, and last minute experiments with two other strings could be too stressfull I think. But what a wonderful world, the world of (plain) gut strings, and what a wonderfull dogma to follow. So far, he..
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I'm really interested in those Stark Efranos all of a sudden. I have a fairly thick carved top on my Eastman - the Lenzner/dead Spiro thing sounds great close mic'd, but if I can get a little more projection and still stay with a gut D/G that'd be really cool.
I might spring for a D next month to see how it is...
I might spring for a D next month to see how it is...
So far I am happy with the Lenzner E, A and D. I foresee sticking with plain gut, experimenting a bit with different strings as I go along.
Hey you gut-heads! I`ve been active on the Gamut thread lately but promised not to post anything in there for some time I wasn`t very lucky with my fairly used Gamuts but the Lenzner D & G arrived on friday ( had to go back to Anima EAD Garbo gut G on thursday, since I played a short gig on friday ). Now I have experimented with the setup all weekend.
Those Lenzners are fine strings straight out of the box, pretty much like my Garbo gut G, but a tad on the darker side and a bit looser feeling. They need some serious playing and settling, especially the D, but the starting point seems, feels and sounds a lot healthier than with my dead Gamuts.
The biggest question has been what to pair them with and the overall tension of the set. The choices has been Gamut EA, Anima EA and finally, dead Spiro 42 weichs. Gamuts did a better job with these Lenzners but still maintained some of their problems ( weird overtones, buzz on the A string ). The tension of the all-gut set was wonderful, even when I crancked them as high as my bridge allowed. This set bowed well.
Anima bottom / Lenzner top worked out fine, but there`s some harshness between coppery-growly-sustainy Animas and the dark and thumpy Lenzners. Nice tension though, even at 9mm - 12mm height.
The Lezners seem to speak out their best when crancked up high and that becomes a problem when using anything else than gut on the bottom. But when I go under 9mm`s on the G it doesn`t seem to matter much anymore, they do just as fine at 7mm - 10mm on my 105cm scale bass. My new carved bass has been set up with fatter low tension strings, like gut, Velvets and downtuned steel, in mind. Theres room on the fingerboard for those to vibrate.
The reason why I got into this old-school mood in the first place was the sound of Charlie Haden. I kinda thought that I`m pretty much done with steel core strings but couldn`t refuse trying my dead Spiro weichs on the bottom. Too much tension at 9mm - 12mm and I started going lower from there. The best balance between the bottom and the top seems now to be at 7mm - 10mm. The Spiros doesn`t kill my hands or the gut D & G sound there. Very nice and balanced sound with this set as the dead steel is a lot darker than my relatively fresh Animas. Very, very good, if I just learn to live with the uneven tension.
There`s some really cool zero b******t -factor about this Spiro / plain gut thing too. No need to change strings for some serious time, gets better with age, stays in tune, relatively cheap.
Arco is even more difficult than it naturally is. But, one of the main reasons to go gut DG over gut G only was the arco response -suits my needs better when it`s 2 / 2 than 3 / 1. I dig the bowed gut sound.
I noticed that the most singing tone from this set comes when plucked higher on the fingerboard, like Haden did. Tried this amplified too and there was the best amplified sound I ever got, very Haden-ish, love it.
My question is for those who use Spiro / gut mix and bow too. How have you managed with the tension difference? How high do you set your strings, and how did you find the best balance between the two? Any tips for pizz and arco techniques, especially when going between the steel and gut?
This just might be someting to stick with!
Thanks, Reiska
I wasn`t very lucky with my fairly used Gamuts but the Lenzner D & G arrived on friday ( had to go back to Anima EAD Garbo gut G on thursday, since I played a short gig on friday ). Now I have experimented with the setup all weekend.Those Lenzners are fine strings straight out of the box, pretty much like my Garbo gut G, but a tad on the darker side and a bit looser feeling. They need some serious playing and settling, especially the D, but the starting point seems, feels and sounds a lot healthier than with my dead Gamuts.
The biggest question has been what to pair them with and the overall tension of the set. The choices has been Gamut EA, Anima EA and finally, dead Spiro 42 weichs. Gamuts did a better job with these Lenzners but still maintained some of their problems ( weird overtones, buzz on the A string ). The tension of the all-gut set was wonderful, even when I crancked them as high as my bridge allowed. This set bowed well.
Anima bottom / Lenzner top worked out fine, but there`s some harshness between coppery-growly-sustainy Animas and the dark and thumpy Lenzners. Nice tension though, even at 9mm - 12mm height.
The Lezners seem to speak out their best when crancked up high and that becomes a problem when using anything else than gut on the bottom. But when I go under 9mm`s on the G it doesn`t seem to matter much anymore, they do just as fine at 7mm - 10mm on my 105cm scale bass. My new carved bass has been set up with fatter low tension strings, like gut, Velvets and downtuned steel, in mind. Theres room on the fingerboard for those to vibrate.
The reason why I got into this old-school mood in the first place was the sound of Charlie Haden. I kinda thought that I`m pretty much done with steel core strings but couldn`t refuse trying my dead Spiro weichs on the bottom. Too much tension at 9mm - 12mm and I started going lower from there. The best balance between the bottom and the top seems now to be at 7mm - 10mm. The Spiros doesn`t kill my hands or the gut D & G sound there. Very nice and balanced sound with this set as the dead steel is a lot darker than my relatively fresh Animas. Very, very good, if I just learn to live with the uneven tension.
There`s some really cool zero b******t -factor about this Spiro / plain gut thing too. No need to change strings for some serious time, gets better with age, stays in tune, relatively cheap.
Arco is even more difficult than it naturally is. But, one of the main reasons to go gut DG over gut G only was the arco response -suits my needs better when it`s 2 / 2 than 3 / 1. I dig the bowed gut sound.
I noticed that the most singing tone from this set comes when plucked higher on the fingerboard, like Haden did. Tried this amplified too and there was the best amplified sound I ever got, very Haden-ish, love it.
My question is for those who use Spiro / gut mix and bow too. How have you managed with the tension difference? How high do you set your strings, and how did you find the best balance between the two? Any tips for pizz and arco techniques, especially when going between the steel and gut?
This just might be someting to stick with!
Thanks, Reiska
Thanks Povl. I`ve been thinking about too but am not sure if the tension difference between S42w`s on a 105cm scale and downtuned solos is that radical anyway. Have to do some research on this. And then there`s the new spiro zing to deal with... One thing that`s lovely about my weichs is that they have the quality that only comes with age!
Edit: Spiro 4 / 4 solos would have equal tension to Animas.
Edit: Spiro 4 / 4 solos would have equal tension to Animas.
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Thanks for the tip doublemidi! I almost pulled the trigger for those but no, at least not yet. That S42w / gut -combo sounded and felt very nice today and the guts are nowhere near settled yet. I`ll give the set, my bass and myself some time.
I`ve been reading thru this thread and someone wrote that many guys switched to steels with EA first in the 60`s. Haden played Golden Spirals with Spiro mittels. Lafaro had low action setup with guts and sounded FANTASTIC. All of that is very encouraging, since I get tomorrow on the issue with fresh mind, ears and hands However, it was very promising today.
I`ve been reading thru this thread and someone wrote that many guys switched to steels with EA first in the 60`s. Haden played Golden Spirals with Spiro mittels. Lafaro had low action setup with guts and sounded FANTASTIC. All of that is very encouraging, since I get tomorrow on the issue with fresh mind, ears and hands
However, it was very promising today.
Keep playing with the string heights. I managed to find a sweet spot where everything balances pretty well - and 'great' was really ¼ turn away from 'not that great'
I just looked through my string measurements to find something that may fit your Lenzners.
The only guts I have are Efrano medium and cheap indian gut strings, so I don't know the tension of the Lenzners but both of my gut string types are rather on the low side 16 to 19 kg on 105 cm scale). I think the Lenzners have a little bit more, maybe 18 to 20 kg. For this the S43 Solos downtuned (about 24 to 25 kg) are a better fit than the S42W (27 to 27.5 kg).
Alternatives that are good to bow, with some pizz sustain but not too much: Evah Pirazzi Solos downtuned (about 23 to 24 kg) or Innovation Braided Solos (140BS, about 19.5 to 22.5 kg) downtuned. Both may fit the character of the gut strings better than the Spiros, but don't last as long as these. Personally, I would prefer the Braided Solos, but that's a matter of taste, the tension might be a bit low or feel like that, but I found out that I would prefer higher tension gut (about 24 kg) anyway.
For pizz only, the Innovation Silver Slaps E and A worked well with the Efranos. For bowing, no pizz, the Efrano wound E and A worked well.
But be patient and try your current combination. It might work after some time and tweaking with the setup.
The only guts I have are Efrano medium and cheap indian gut strings, so I don't know the tension of the Lenzners but both of my gut string types are rather on the low side 16 to 19 kg on 105 cm scale). I think the Lenzners have a little bit more, maybe 18 to 20 kg. For this the S43 Solos downtuned (about 24 to 25 kg) are a better fit than the S42W (27 to 27.5 kg).
Alternatives that are good to bow, with some pizz sustain but not too much: Evah Pirazzi Solos downtuned (about 23 to 24 kg) or Innovation Braided Solos (140BS, about 19.5 to 22.5 kg) downtuned. Both may fit the character of the gut strings better than the Spiros, but don't last as long as these. Personally, I would prefer the Braided Solos, but that's a matter of taste, the tension might be a bit low or feel like that, but I found out that I would prefer higher tension gut (about 24 kg) anyway.
For pizz only, the Innovation Silver Slaps E and A worked well with the Efranos. For bowing, no pizz, the Efrano wound E and A worked well.
But be patient and try your current combination. It might work after some time and tweaking with the setup.
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Toying around with the idea of Gut D/G but I don't know what to get. It feels like starting again (I want steel strings. Which ones?). I'd pair them with a Spirocore E/A (Either Light or Medium). I'm thinking about the Lenzer or the European strings from Lemar Music (unless there's a better option). Any suggestions? This is my first time trying plain gut.
Outside Spiro bottoms there are plenty of choices: Downtuned Evah solos, Dominant solos, Velvet compas 180 ( a really interesting option for me ) etc, that bow really well and are in the ballpark tension- and sound-wise. Cool thing about Spiros is the no bs factor as they last forever and stay in tune.
Played at rehearsals with Spiro S42W / Lenzner mix and there`s a lot getting used to after Anima tension but the sound is nice. I heard my bass played by another bassist and it was all cool, he was digging the sound as well.
Played at rehearsals with Spiro S42W / Lenzner mix and there`s a lot getting used to after Anima tension but the sound is nice. I heard my bass played by another bassist and it was all cool, he was digging the sound as well.
If you intend to live with guts over Spiros for the foreseeable future, you may wish to have a little extra "scoop" planed into the board underneath the D&G to give them room to vibrate and fully develop their voice without cranking the heck out of the bridge. That's how my old German was set up when I got it...I was uncomfortable playing steel G&D for years until it dawned on me to put guts on top (Red-O-Ray D&G over Spiro Weich E&A) and now it plays effortlessly and has great response and evenness all the way up, down and across the board with the string heights at 7-10mm.
Thanks KfS, I was kinda waiting for you to chime in since I remembered you mentioning guts with Sweichs on a lower setup somewhere. Luckily I have a reasonably deep scoop on the fingerboard of my new bass, as I wanted it to work well with fatter gauge / low tension strings. I have mine set at 7 - 10mm now too. That scoop is propably the reason why this setup wants me to pluck higher on the fb than what I`m used to ( mostly at the end ), up there seems to be more sustain and balance between gut and steel.
