Hamer 5-string CruiseBass

[Justshootit]

Or CruiseMissile as the guy I bought it from affectionately called it. I really like this bass save for the electronics. I don't know exactly what pickups it has, but the bridge pickup is a J-bass type that is just slightly less wide than a Bartolini or Nordstrand J-bass bridge pickup, and the neck pickup is a P-bass model that has the little hex screws where you'd expect the magnets to be. Weird thing is that the neck pickup appears to be for a 4-string, not a 5-string. This bass has a pretty narrow neck for a 5-string and I wonder if it was a 4-string body that had a 5-string bridge and nut put on it so it could be converted to a 5-string.

The neck pickup is a little muddy, and the bridge pickup, while it's clear and bright, hums like crazy when it's plugged into my Bass Rockman - haven't had a chance to try it with my amp as the amp is in storage and I need to find the time to fetch it and trag it up the stairs to my condo.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this model of bass and if they can recommend replacement pickups for it. One of the master luthiers at Bartolini was kind enough to recommend a neck-width, j-bass bridge pickup and a P-bass pickup to pair with it, but I'm not sure it'll fit the bass.

Any thoughts would help.
Thanks,
Don

 

[two fingers]

1) Welcome to TalkBass!!!!

2) Pics always help. If you could post a few that would be great. Also, a measurement of the width of the neck at the nut, and string spacing at the bridge would be helpful info.

3) I have had great experiences with Nordstrand a few times. They will make you pretty much whatever you want. Their pickups are beefy but not muddy in my experience.

 

[Bushmaster]

Cruise Basses came with a choice of Gotoh or 2 TEK bridges, various Seymour Duncan/BassLines (passive and active) or EMG PUs. Just that I only saw instruments with a JJ PU array, no PJ.

Measuring would be a must in the situation given.

Many manufactures use the very same sizes for 4 and 5 string P PUs, just the armatures inside will be different.

There indeed is something to the Cruise Missile dub. They were considered "Fender killers" as they were extremely high quality. Makes sense to invest into decent upgrades still.

 

[Justshootit]

Okay, pics attached -- I left the pick guard off for these. Measurements are as follows:
P-Bass pickup 2.25 x 1.06”
J-bass pickup 3.69 x 0.69”
Nut width 1.66”
String spacing at bridge
— C to G - 27/64th”
— G to D - 32/64th”
— D to A - 32/64th”
— A to E - 32/64th”

Let me know if this sheds any light...

Thanks,
Don

 

[Justshootit]

Hi TF,

I replied to your post but didn't use the "Reply" function. Hope to get your thoughts.

Thx,
Don

 

[Lesfunk]

Cruise Basses came with a choice of Gotoh or 2 TEK bridges, various Seymour Duncan/BassLines (passive and active) or EMG PUs. Just that I only saw instruments with a JJ PU array, no PJ.

Measuring would be a must in the situation given.

Many manufactures use the very same sizes for 4 and 5 string P PUs, just the armatures inside will be different.

There indeed is something to the Cruise Missile dub. They were considered "Fender killers" as they were extremely high quality. Makes sense to invest into decent upgrades still.

You’re referring to the 90s era cruise bass indeed.
Looks like the pics provided are of an 80s era cruise bass. Very different

 

[Justshootit]

You’re referring to the 90s era cruise bass indeed.
Looks like the pics provided are of an 80s era cruise bass. Very different

Yep. Bought this 1985 or 1986.

 

[Bushmaster]

Just for comparison, the '90s Cruise 5 2TEK sported a 1¾" nut width and a 5/8" spacing at bridge. (PUs were Seymour Duncan/BassLines Active for 5 string Jazz Bass AJB-5 with passive VVT controls... well, I think they would have benefited from an upgrade to a STC-2A preamp...)

Our P now here indeed looks like a 4-string model. But due to the problems mentioned the PUs should be out anyway.

Basically one could just follow sound considerations. Whereby one also could do a rout out to accommodate longer J formats (screw distance being the same anyway). E.g. if you wanted to go with an EMG PJ set. Seymour Duncan AFAIK does not offer a 5-str. P. But Bartolini (and others) may be nice, too...

Nice bass, btw

 

[Justshootit]

Just for comparison, the '90s Cruise 5 2TEK sported a 1¾" nut width and a 5/8" spacing at bridge. (PUs were Seymour Duncan/BassLines Active for 5 string Jazz Bass AJB-5 with passive VVT controls... well, I think they would have benefited from an upgrade to a STC-2A preamp...)

Our P now here indeed looks like a 4-string model. But due to the problems mentioned the PUs should be out anyway.

Basically one could just follow sound considerations. Whereby one also could do a rout out to accommodate longer J formats (screw distance being the same anyway). E.g. if you wanted to go with an EMG PJ set. Seymour Duncan AFAIK does not offer a 5-str. P. But Bartolini (and others) may be nice, too...

Nice bass, btw

Thanks, Bushmaster, it's great -- just fun to play and chords are a breeze. One thing concerns me here. You referred to a 5/8" string spacing at the bridge; that gives a total span from E string to C string of 2 and 1/8 inches. Mine is about 3/16" narrower than that at the bridge. Would that narrower spacing cause any degradation in the effectiveness of the pickups?

I have been in touch with Bartolini's pre-sales support and they have been very accommodating. I'm also going to contact Nordstrand.

Thanks for all the feedback so far!!

 

[Up the dose]

Hamer basses sound best with EMG.

 

[Thud Staff]

Ah yes...the dread Cruise Bass 5....4 string basses converted to 5. If you scrutinize the spacing of the strings at the headstock, you will see the 5th string path is not the same spacing as the other 4 (much tighter between D and G). Also, they didn’t have the decency to install a bridge with 2.25” spacing, which the neck can accommodate.

Not sure on the pickups: these did ship with Dimarzio pickups, which the P pickup looks to be.
The bridge may have been sent out with some kind of single coil, as the Model J would not ‘read’ the A string, due to its linear split coil.

if you are desiring to install a set of pickups from the same manufacturer, I suggest the EMG P5J set for 5 string (as @Up the dose suggested). The bar magnets and stack design ensure you will get balanced coverage of all the strings. You just need to make sure you in install the proper ‘half’ of the P to read 3 strings (which looks like it would be for the B/E/A section).

Bartolini, while fantastic pickups, do not have a true humcancelling J pickup for narrow string basses. The website clearly says they recommend a single coil for these applications.

If you are up for mix and match sets, the Bartolini 8P is a great pickup, matched with a Seymour Duncan stack Jazz. No hum, fantastic tone, great balance. Again, the P will need to be installed with the longer magnet half under the 3 strings it can sense.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Justshootit]

The nice thing about Bartolini is that they have a j bass bridge pickup in a neck pickup length. This bass has a neck pickup that is 3.68" where the standard size for a j-bass bridge pickup is 3.75". I DO NOT want to take a router to this bass to accommodate a wider bridge pickup than will currently fit.

What do you all think of the Nordstrand blade pickups?

 

[Bushmaster]

Would that narrower spacing cause any degradation in the effectiveness of the pickups?

Depends upon the design of the PUs.

Ah yes...the dread Cruise Bass 5....4 string basses converted to 5. If you scrutinize the spacing of the strings at the headstock, you will see the 5th string path is not the same spacing as the other 4 (much tighter between D and G). Also, they didn’t have the decency to install a bridge with 2.25” spacing, which the neck can accommodate.

Ok, then it would be no problem to have cut a new nut, as well as install a suitable bridge.

if you are desiring to install a set of pickups from the same manufacturer, I suggest the EMG P5J set for 5 string (as @Up the dose suggested). The bar magnets and stack design ensure you will get balanced coverage of all the strings. You just need to make sure you in install the proper ‘half’ of the P to read 3 strings (which looks like it would be for the B/E/A section).

The Invalid Link Removed comes with a LJ ("long jazz") which they also otherwise recommend for 5-str. application. One also could go with some other Original or X-Series P in tandem with a matching LJ. As already mentioned, a rout out would constitute no problem.

Bartolini, while fantastic pickups, do not have a true humcancelling J pickup for narrow string basses. The website clearly says they recommend a single coil for these applications.

If you are up for mix and match sets, the Bartolini 8P is a great pickup, matched with a Seymour Duncan stack Jazz. No hum, fantastic tone, great balance. Again, the P will need to be installed with the longer magnet half under the 3 strings it can sense.

Sounds good

 

[Thud Staff]

The nice thing about Bartolini is that they have a j bass bridge pickup in a neck pickup length. This bass has a neck pickup that is 3.68" where the standard size for a j-bass bridge pickup is 3.75". I DO NOT want to take a router to this bass to accommodate a wider bridge pickup than will currently fit.

What do you all think of the Nordstrand blade pickups?

I see your predicament. Perhaps the EMG P5 with a Jazz Neck (short)? Still, a battery, so may not be desirable to you.

The Nordy Jazz blades only come in 3.73” for neck and bridge. Bummer...unless, Nordstrand would build you a custom? Precision blade would be great, though.

Passive pickups seem to be a ‘mix and match’ situation for off-the-shelf pickups.

Also, as @Bushmaster said, a new bridge could easily be installed. The Schaller 5 roller bridge was standard on some of the subsequent year models. Could be an option...

 

[Justshootit]

Ok somebody get me some detergent, a fire hose and a closet full of towels to get the egg off my face. I pulled the pickup out and measured it from the bottom and voila, it's 3.73" like every other J- Bass bridge pickup. The case tapers from bottom to top. It IS a 5-string pickup and I think the reason it was buzzing is that one of the leads was hanging by a thread. It broke as soon as I lifted the pickup out of the slot. Also it could use a rout just to trim the slot a bit as it's a tight fit. I may solder the lead back into place, reinstall the pickup & see if it works. Or I might take it to a luthier, get the rout done and install the EMG active PJ set. Thinking about doing the bridge replacement also. Stay tuned...

 

[Justshootit]

Well i succeeded in fixing the pickup. Unsoldered the leads from the pot and pulled the pickup and the broken lead out, soldered the broken lead back onto the pickup, reinstalled it and soldered the leads back to the pot. Voila - still buzzes like crazy. Likely going with EMG.

 

[Justshootit]

Well i succeeded in fixing the pickup. Unsoldered the leads from the pot and pulled the pickup and the broken lead out, soldered the broken lead back onto the pickup, reinstalled it and soldered the leads back to the pot. Voila - still buzzes like crazy. Likely going with EMG.

Well I posted this elsewhere but it's the "resolution" to this thread so here we go. I had been using an OLD cable between the bass and the Rockman. I replaced it with a new Ernie Ball cable and that DiMarzio P-pickup at the neck sounds fantastic now. The J-pickup is still a little weak and still buzzes. Any suggestions for dealing with the buzzing would be appreciated.

 

[BruceWane]

It's most likely a single coil design, so it's going to buzz no matter what you do. All you can do is replace it with a hum cancelling J pickup.

It's a common problem with PJ basses - often times a P pickup is paired with a single coil J. Single coil J pickups are designed to be hum cancelling when used in pairs by winding one pickup in the opposite direction and inserting the magnets upside down (reverse wound, reverse polarity, AKA "RWRP"). When a single coil J is used with a P pickup, there is no matching J pickup to cancel the hum. You'd think the manufacturers would take a little more care about this, but many times they don't.

There's lots of 5 string hum cancelling J pickups available. Since you have very narrow spacing, the pole pieces most likely aren't going to line up with your strings, but rest assured this is only an appearance issue; it'll sound just fine. Although the pole pieces in a 4 string J pickup may be wide enough to cover your narrow spacing, I wouldn't recommend using a 4 string hum cancelling pickup unless it is a stacked coil humbucker. A split coil humbucker has two coils side by side, so there will be a dead zone in the middle that'll make your A string a bit dead. Any 3.73" hum cancelling 5 string J pickup will work fine, whether stacked or split coil; the side by side coils in a 5 string split design will have one coil under 3 strings and the other under 2, so the "dead zone' will fall between strings.

I had a 5 string Hamer Blitz Bass from the same era. Like yours, 5 strings squeezed onto a 4 string neck. I ordered it new from Hamer, in Blizzard White. I chose a J-J configuration and chose the optional Seymour Duncan "upgrade". Bass arrived and the A string was dead as a doornail. They had installed 4 string SD split coil humbuckers. You'd think they would have noticed the problem before shipping it out, but we did get it figured out and resolved by swapping out for EMGs that had blades instead of pole pieces. Seems obvious now, but we have to remember that back in the mid '80s, basses with 5 strings were not common at all, so a lot of builders were still figuring things out.

 

[BruceWane]

Also thought I'd mention - be careful with that headstock. It suffers from the same design flaw as most Gibsons - a tilt back headstock with no scarf joint, no volute, and a truss rod channel carved right out of the middle of it. It's a very weak design and can snap off pretty easily, just google "Gibson headstock repair" to see what I mean. The 1st generation Cruise and Blitz are brothers design-wise; set neck, all mahogany, just different body shapes. My Blitz Bass got knocked over face-first while sitting on a stand and the neck severely cracked, Gibson style . Didn't snap completely off, but it may as well have. Repaired it without issue and the bass lived on. It's not gonna just up and break off all by itself, but if you're in a punk project that's into body-slamming on stage, you may want to get another bass .

 

[Justshootit]

To use a really painful cliche, that's a negatory on the punk slammin' thing. At my age I'd be more worried about breaking a bone than breaking a guitar

I want to use this bass for chord work - more like classical guitar and maybe even some cello pieces. Last I checked, Andre Segovia and Yo-Yo Ma weren't into thrash so no obligatory body slamming there.

Anyway, kidding aside, I was looking at that Nordstrom Blade J pickup and now that I've been getting such great results from the DiMarzio P-pickup, I may look at their offerings as well.