Handmade vs. CNC what really the diff?

[Econdude]

So I see a lot of people saying things like, "yeah it's a good bass, but that not the USA version, the USAA version is "hand made!'" Or some variation. If I have 2 pieces of Mahogany (for instance) and I carve one out with a fingernail file which takes me 10 years and the other I use a CNC that is precision tuned to the same specs as the handmade one, what really is going to be the difference in tone from one to the other (if they have the same neck, fingerboard, electronics PUPS, etc)?? Isn't the real difference in the electronics and PUPs, bridge, nut, etc? I am trying to justify the difference between a $10,000 bass and a $2,500 bass that have exactly the same specs? Does the more expensive one sound better just because you paid more money for it? For instance, I know people who have picked up relatively cheap basses made with good wood and modded them with high end electronics and PUPs and they sound fantastic! Why pay high dollars for an outrageously expensive bass when you can do a mod and have just as good a sound for a quarter the price or less??

Thanks for humoring me!

 

[Teacher]

(1.) Precision (cnc) (2.) Appreciation for old-school craftsmanship (hand made)

That is it. Period. /thread.

 

[xroads]

IMHO it's not CNC versus handmade.

It's about individualism. A (good) luthier will select the woods (basically the part of the tree) according
to what matches best. He will start out with high grade woods, being cut in the right direction, pre-treated correctly,
and stored properly etc.
Cut by CNC or manually is really a non-issue in this game.

 

[Teacher]

Ah, but which one's best for metal?

 

[lz4005]

I am trying to justify the difference between a $10,000 bass and a $2,500 bass that have exactly the same specs?

There's a lot less difference between those two basses than there is between an $800 bass and a $199 bass. Still 4X difference in price, but the higher you go, there's a diminishing return on investment.

 

[pravus]

Functionally there is no difference unless you can prove that the molecules at the end of a CNC cutter magically cut wood differently than the molecules at the end of a hand saw. They are both just tools. To me what would matter in a "handmade" instrument is how much additional detail is paid to every aspect of the instrument. Proper wood selection, verifying accuracy and fixing minor flaws are all things I expect from any manufacturer. In a "handmade" instrument I would just expect the highest quality because I am generally paying the price for it. That means no flaws in workmanship or finish with everything properly set up to play as-is. If a company (like say Ibanez) wants to crank out cheaper guitars using faster manufacturing techniques with a lower grade of finish, I have no problem with that. They are generally priced accordingly. I just know going into it that I'm not getting the top-shelf, so to speak. It gives me options to spend money on the "upgrades" that are important and essential to me.

 

[Econdude]

Functionally there is no difference unless you can prove that the molecules at the end of a CNC cutter magically cut wood differently than the molecules at the end of a hand saw. They are both just tools. To me what would matter in a "handmade" instrument is how much additional detail is paid to every aspect of the instrument. Proper wood selection, verifying accuracy and fixing minor flaws are all things I expect from any manufacturer. In a "handmade" instrument I would just expect the highest quality because I am generally paying the price for it. That means no flaws in workmanship or finish with everything properly set up to play as-is. If a company (like say Ibanez) wants to crank out cheaper guitars using faster manufacturing techniques with a lower grade of finish, I have no problem with that. They are generally priced accordingly. I just know going into it that I'm not getting the top-shelf, so to speak. It gives me options to spend money on the "upgrades" that are important and essential to me.

Thanks Pravis, you used the Ibanez example, but what about a luthier that has both USA and offshore like Michael Tobias. You know by specs they have higher end hardware on the USA made basses, but what if you bought a Kingston bass and put in better electronics ... certainly those better electronics don't justify a $4000 difference? I understand how the market works, and why a handmade bass costs more, but what about the bottom line, quality of performance? Like iz4005 said there obviously diminishing returns at some point, and from what I have heard from midrange basses, you can get a primo sound without having to spend thousands and thousands of dollars (I have an MTL AG6, and I also think the Carvin PB5 sounds incredible for just around $1500-2000).

 

[pravus]

They might not justify it to you or to me, but it's possible that quite a few other people have that preference. And you won't be able to understand it. I don't get Fender pricing at all. When I look at a P-bass I see nothing that says more than $500 and yet they go for $1200 for the USA models. Even the Duff McKagan signature series is only $1000. You get a painted neck, an extra pickup and a little switch thingy for $200 less! It makes no sense to me. But I don't see Fender hurting either.

 

[charlie monroe]

They just auctioned off a Picasso for 179 million dollars.

The lithograph can be had from the gift shop for $21.99.

 

[Flaked Beans]

Ah, but which one's best for metal?

This one:
Invalid Link Removed

 

[Teacher]

Ah!

 

[Flaked Beans]

hand rubbed oil finish!!

[edit]fully roasted, as you can see above ^ ^[/edit]

 

[Jughead6]

CNC machines are consistently accurate and you don't have to pay them a salary. So, they are great for mass production. But, because of their accuracy, they are just as great for one-off mega-bucks boutique basses.

The method of cutting wood is not where the differences lie.

 

[I Need a six...]

I tend to find handmande has a better "feel"'to it than cnc. Chances of that being in my head? Like 90%

 

[pedroims]

IMHO it's not CNC versus handmade.

It's about individualism. A (good) luthier will select the woods (basically the part of the tree) according
to what matches best. He will start out with high grade woods, being cut in the right direction, pre-treated correctly,
and stored properly etc.
Cut by CNC or manually is really a non-issue in this game.

A good luthier can also use a cne machine for cutting body and neck plus what you said: Select woods according to best match, pre-treated correctly, stored properly, etc.

 

[nilpla]

Well, a CNC cut bass will leave out the possibility to store a flatpick in the neck pocket.

 

[fjadams]

The difference? The difference is that it gives people who consider themselves to be purists something else to be smug about.
Any other differences are in what their friends and family laughingly refer to as their brain.

 

[Lowness]

The difference? The difference is that it gives people who consider themselves to be purists something else to be smug about.
Any other differences are in what their friends and family laughingly refer to as their brain.

I want CNC machines; the last thing I want is human error in cutting the bass.

CNC machines or nothing.

 

[fjadams]

If I had the room and the money I'd have a CNC machine in it.

 

[SamJ]

Well, apart from routing the pickup cavities, and truss rod cover, as well as a metal CNC for making their own solid brass bridges, Alembic use old fashioned wood working saws, rippers, and hand finishing to make their basses, and not a single one is a dud with poor fit and finish... so go figure eh?