Handmade vs. Manufactured / Inhouse vs. Outsourced

[jnammy]

To me, it doesn’t matter; what matters is how well the bass performs for that particular individual when it counts (i.e. at a gig, recording session). I’ve realized that “handmade/inhouse” always means higher prices, but only sometimes means better performance, feel, and sound.

For example, in the world of watches, the most expensive ones are the ones that have a handmade/inhouse movement ($20,000+), yet they are usually far less accurate and durable than watches that have a manufactured/outsourced ETA movement ($1,500+) that has been modified to work well with the other parts of a particular watch. Ironically, the most accurate and robust watches are quartz and digital watches, which can be had for $10+. The key difference here is that watches are just meant to be looked at since everyone has a cell phone nowadays, whereas basses actually need to perform. Any thoughts?

 

[Fuzzbass]

What bothers me are inane Luddite claims such as "so-and-so uses CNC, and this makes him an assembler and not a luthier". As you say, what matters is the end result.

 

[Gomeztool]

I think the assembler (in the context used here) vs luthier comparison is valid. Someone who builds with prefab parts really didn't make a guitar in the sense that Ritter or Bud does. Of course, not everyone can take prefab parts and put together a guitar that other people want to buy so we have to respect the abilities of people like Nino, Dan Atkinson and to some extent, Roger and the Lakland folks.

 

[gazman_res]

Supply vs demand.

 

[gforce9]

I've recently altered my thinking on this some: While I've never owned or played a really high end handmade bass (Ritter,Drozd,...), I have owned 2 Modulus basses (a VJ~$2k and a Q4 ~$2.7k). Recently, I traded the VJ (in part) for a MM Sterling Ray 34. Honestly, the Ray plays better, sounds really good, and I don't find myself having sellers remorse for the VJ which costs 3x the Ray. Having said that, I would love to have a super high-end, handmade Jazz and P.

 

[mongo2]

what matters is how well the bass performs for that particular individual when it counts (i.e. at a gig, recording session).

Agreed.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

If given the opportunity, I would use a CNC to do a majority of the tedious shaping work. You still have to do a lot by hand afterward anyways.

 

[Fuzzbass]

If given the opportunity, I would use a CNC to do a majority of the tedious shaping work. You still have to do a lot by hand afterward anyways.

+1

No instrument is completely handmade: tools are required. Same as a chisel or saw, machines such as CNC and Plek are merely tools that have to be operated properly in order to deliver a quality instrument.

Ritter and Sadowsky are both luthiers, period.

 

[madmachinist]

as to the CNC debate - i think it's moot , but what do i know!


lots of non-craftsmen want to badmouth "guitars made by
robots" - assuming it's possible to toss pieces of wood into
a machine and pull out a soul-less , finished guitar .

if you think about it, today - "hand -made " means:
routers , bandsaws , planers , drill presses , belt , orbital,
drum sanders ....buffers .....

a CNC mill/router is just another power tool - a hand
router without the templates and jigs . it takes more skill
and woodcutting/machining knowledge to program the
G-code which controls the tools cutting the part ,not
to mention- the trial and error required to get the desired
result .... than cutting them "by hand" with jigs and templates.

once the operation is proofed and perfected , then a much
less skilled worker can then run the machine , while the
craftsmen can finish , assemble and tweak the parts into
a musical instrument.


not many "manufacturers" building basses with
spokeshaves and drawknives...chisels and hand saws
exclusively- that i've ever heard of .(plenty of great
luthiers, though )

not to mention....without purchased fasteners , electronics , hardware, and on and on .


as a CNC mill programmer and owner , i can tell you that in most situations, the end results are the key to cnc ....
hand finishing is still critical , but you can rough-out beautiful
parts in much less time than in a non-cnc mfg process ...
and with better consistency and accuracy....
which in turn reduces labor costs = better instruments
@less cost to the end user

nothing wrong with hand - making instruments . classical
guitars/ upright basses in particular . i love them .

but i also LOVE my CNC machined Bubinga/Ebony/Ovangkol
Corvette which cost less than $1000 new.

 

[jnammy]

I've had a couple of custom basses from different builders that were made without a CNC and all of them had pretty noticeable woodworking flaws that you'd never find on even a $300 bass at Guitar Center. I would only prefer something being "handmade" if it met or exceeded it's machine made counterpart, unless it was a piece of art that I was only going to look at.

 

[KingRazor]

IMO, the best bass would be one that is made almost completely by a high end precision machine, but closely monitored every step of the way by a skillful luthier.

Knowing how to operate complex machinery is a skill in and of itself.

The machine makes sure that lots of little imperfections that might not even be noticed right away don't happen.