• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Harp players

Here is the simple rule of thumb we have learned from over 16yrs of playing roots music on the road:

Any unknown harmonica player who asks to sit in uninvited, in the middle of a set, is GUARANTEED to be crappy. So crappy it will make you regret even being in a band.

Let me tell y'all the story of "Harmonic Ben" in Charlotte, NC.

We were in the middle of an insane 11 show in 10 days run around the region and hitting it at SBC, the premier brew pub/restaurant in the state. A woman approaches us after like our 3rd tune and says "y'all need to have my friend "harmonica Ben" sit in, he's real good!" We were a long way from home, and at the beginning of a very high-profile/high-pressure gig, so we politely decline as best we can. Not 2 songs later, "Harmonica Ben" himself then approaches us and starts babbling about playing in a Willie Nelson cover band, and was already wearing his little blues vest, his little blues hat, and his little harmonica gunbelt. His party was a table of at least a dozen and they are now hollering "Harmonica Ben!" at us from across the room. What were we to do? Guy says he can play Mickey Raphael's stuff in a Willie band, and the house is all for it, so we cave. HUGE mistake. He was so awful, that if I began to describe his "performance", I could only use words that would get me another "vacation" from TB.

He played over the vocals and stopped in the spaces, like it was an Andy Kaufman joke. He was so off tonally, we were all yelling at him he had the wrong key harp. He didn't. After a few minutes of the harmonica equivalent of waterboarding, Ben says to the guitar player "wanna trade licks?". Guitar says very frankly, square in his face, "no." and ends the tune on the next turn around. We didn't throw him any curve balls either, Sonny Boy's "Frogs For Snakes" is required learning for any harp player worth a poop, and is a dead straight blues change. 1st grade harp 101. Well, "Harmonica Ben" failed that test. On the first set break, the floor manager read us the riot act for putting that amateur **** on his stage, and asked if this was our first gig.

No strange harp player who asks to sit in mid set is good enough to be on your stage. Ever. The fact they are clueless enough to ask in that moment, tells you they are clueless enough to stay in the crowd.

You know what's even better? The guy who wanders around your crowd all night, playing along with a random keyed harp.
 
speaking of random keyed harp...

I was basement jamming with some guys a few years back. We do the first few songs in G, but then we change to A (cant remember the key, just that we changed) and I notice the Harp player NOT changing harps. So I causally say "hey buddy, we are going in A for this one", thinking he didn't hear the other guy the first time. He says "Yup, I know". Well, when I asked him why he was going to play it with a G harp he stated that he had only brought a G because most rock and roll is out of G or close enough that he can fake it with the G.

now Im a young Buck, so it is hard to scold older players, but in this case I thought I should lay down the law. I went in the back room and found some more harps and said "always play in key with us".

It wasnt my band or my basement, so it wasnt my place to sit him down, but I had to do something. Holy ****, he played loud and over everything, but at least he played in Key after I got there.
 
Euh harps=harmonicas for all of you ???

when I hear harps I think of that :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDh3XzCLTqk

:)

yeah, harmonica or "mouth harp", "mouth organ", I've heard. But just "harp" is another instrument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harp


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica


==

I saw Flecktones here a few years ago. Howard Levy rejoined the group, and Bela told the audience that Howard uses a diatonic harmonica but over blows to get all the chromatic notes. He did not switch harmonicas during the show, and we were told he was not using a chromatic harmonica.

Most harmonica players are not as good as Howard Levy, but a person with a diatonic harmonica, setup properly for over bending, can potentially play in any key.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_techniques#Overbending
 
Absolutely! And not just the mighty Howard, but Curtis Waterman (Gonstermachers), Pat Bergeson (Chet Atkins, Lyle Lovette, Shelby Lynn), Rock Bottom (Roy Bookbinder), Sugar Blue (Rolling Stones), and of course the previously mentioned Mickey Raphael, all do the over blow/over draw to get chromatic scales out of a straight harp. Not easy, and VERY hard to control tone when doing it.

Of these others, I think Pat is probably the closest to being as freaky as Howard.
 
Here is the simple rule of thumb we have learned from over 16yrs of playing roots music on the road:

Any unknown harmonica player who asks to sit in uninvited, in the middle of a set, is GUARANTEED to be crappy. So crappy it will make you regret even being in a band.

Let me tell y'all the story of "Harmonic Ben" in Charlotte, NC.

We were in the middle of an insane 11 show in 10 days run around the region and hitting it at SBC, the premier brew pub/restaurant in the state. A woman approaches us after like our 3rd tune and says "y'all need to have my friend "harmonica Ben" sit in, he's real good!" We were a long way from home, and at the beginning of a very high-profile/high-pressure gig, so we politely decline as best we can. Not 2 songs later, "Harmonica Ben" himself then approaches us and starts babbling about playing in a Willie Nelson cover band, and was already wearing his little blues vest, his little blues hat, and his little harmonica gunbelt. His party was a table of at least a dozen and they are now hollering "Harmonica Ben!" at us from across the room. What were we to do? Guy says he can play Mickey Raphael's stuff in a Willie band, and the house is all for it, so we cave. HUGE mistake. He was so awful, that if I began to describe his "performance", I could only use words that would get me another "vacation" from TB.

He played over the vocals and stopped in the spaces, like it was an Andy Kaufman joke. He was so off tonally, we were all yelling at him he had the wrong key harp. He didn't. After a few minutes of the harmonica equivalent of waterboarding, Ben says to the guitar player "wanna trade licks?". Guitar says very frankly, square in his face, "no." and ends the tune on the next turn around. We didn't throw him any curve balls either, Sonny Boy's "Frogs For Snakes" is required learning for any harp player worth a poop, and is a dead straight blues change. 1st grade harp 101. Well, "Harmonica Ben" failed that test. On the first set break, the floor manager read us the riot act for putting that amateur **** on his stage, and asked if this was our first gig.

No strange harp player who asks to sit in mid set is good enough to be on your stage. Ever. The fact they are clueless enough to ask in that moment, tells you they are clueless enough to stay in the crowd.

You know what's even better? The guy who wanders around your crowd all night, playing along with a random keyed harp.
Great story.

Great lesson.
 
Absolutely! And not just the mighty Howard, but Curtis Waterman (Gonstermachers), Pat Bergeson (Chet Atkins, Lyle Lovette, Shelby Lynn), Rock Bottom (Roy Bookbinder), Sugar Blue (Rolling Stones), and of course the previously mentioned Mickey Raphael, all do the over blow/over draw to get chromatic scales out of a straight harp. Not easy, and VERY hard to control tone when doing it.

Of these others, I think Pat is probably the closest to being as freaky as Howard.

The previously mentioned Jason Ricci as well as John Popper have also mastered the overblow. Ditto for a Canadian chap named Carlos DelJunco.
 
I can't stand playing with harp players. As has been said before on other TB threads, most harp players don't know when to stop. My experience has been that most harp players want to play during the whole song and play over the vocals and lead solos.
When asked by a band member not to play over the vocals and guitar solos they tend to get very offended and even obnoxious. Just sayin.

+1
I haven't found a good harp player yet!
 
No strange harp player who asks to sit in mid set is good enough to be on your stage. Ever. The fact they are clueless enough to ask in that moment, tells you they are clueless enough to stay in the crowd.

I don't think harmonica players have a monopoly on this. You can insert "singer" "guitarist", "drummer" etc. etc. (including "bassist") into that statement and have it still be good guidance.
 
Ah yes, the old Mississippi saxophone. I've met both sorts and, contrary to an earlier post, one that's in between. I'll tell you about him first :p

So, let's call him 'Dick'. I know the guy from various gigs and talk to him whenever we're at the same gig. He's a nice guy, but his harp playing is a bit like his general demeanour: he doesn't know when to shut up, and thinks it's cause everyone wants to hear it. He's an older guy, and I'm only 21, so I don't tell him just what I think. Basically, he'll go to someones gig, sit at the back of the room and blow along. For his own practice, I guess. It's not only frustrating but also very rude. I've seen one guy, who's very well respected in this town, stop the music and tell him to get his own motherf***ing gig if he wants to play. I played a gig recently, and this guy had the nerve to give our harp player (more about him later) tips on his tone. In the last of 3 sets, he jumps up for a bit of a stretch out jam with the lot of us. His tone is so bad, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Later that night he gave our keyboard player tips on soloing... :/ Our keyboard player is a great soloist. This guy has even come up to me, knowing I play a wee bit of harp, and says "hey check this out", gets out a chromatic and plays Billie's Bounce a few times through, about 30 centimeters from my face. How do you respond to that? "Cool, dude".

So, the other guy. He's damn incredible. Been on the blues scene in this country for 30 odd years, is a great frontman and singer, entertaining, plays licks you'd swear came off of a classic record, and he can cop the style of all the greats if need be. He's the real deal. I haven't heard many harp players that good, even on record. Pretty stoked to be playing in a band with the guy. Not as much to say about him, cause the bad stuff is the most interesting :p

That's my experience with harp players. Sorry about the novel.

Edit: How does that make the first guy "in between"? Well, he's got 'chops'. He knows his theory and has good technique. He just puts it to bad use with bad tone and being obliviously rude.
 
Popper doesn't have the control/pitch of any of the players on the list we just made. He is the Yngwie of Harmonica.

Amazing songwriter/vocalist/frontman, I'm actually a huge fan. I was having my 4th elbow reconstruction when Save His Soul came out, Poppers magnum opus about surviving the madness of catastrophic injury. That record practically saved my life, but I always found his harmonica gymnastics to be his weakest link.

"So we can keep hiding
So we can survive
And keep on believing
Someday we’ll go outside & drive
Gonna go outside & drive…"
 
There was another harmonica thread a few weeks ago similar to this one. I posted this brief story in that thread and will share it again for those who missed it.

I play in a country music band. A few months ago, we played a gig and after the 1st set, this guy comes up and asks if he can sit in and play harmonica with us. We said,"Sorry no sit ins."

He gets pizzed. At the start of the 2nd set, I notice he is sitting stage left next to our PA speaker and he commences to blow harmonica during all of our songs. And he is VERY animated like he is getting down! I can actually hear him during the set because he is blowing a lung thru that harmonica trying to be heard!

We stay professional and wait until the set is over. The drummer wants to strangle the guy. After the 2nd set, we approach him and politely ask him to stop it. He says, "F*** Off!"

So we go to the venue manager and tell him the situation and he goes over and tells the guy to stop it or leave immediately. The guy chugs his beer and leaves.
 
IMO, the best harp players are also vocalists, mainly because you can't sing and play harp at the same time. The problem with guys that only play harp is that they will need to be comfortable with standing on stage and not playing anything for long stretches of time. Even though you can comp chords on a harp, it's rare to find someone that actually does and knows what they are doing. But even the best and most restrained harp player will still get bored on stage from time to time, and will overplay as a result.
 
A guy sat in with us. We played Misty in E, not Eb, he played the melody on a diatonic harp and got all of the notes. I asked him how he did it without a chromatic- he was able to over blow and bend to get the notes that "didn't come with the harp" (his primary instrument is trumpet)



:)

yeah, harmonica or "mouth harp", "mouth organ", I've heard. But just "harp" is another instrument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harp


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica


==

I saw Flecktones here a few years ago. Howard Levy rejoined the group, and Bela told the audience that Howard uses a diatonic harmonica but over blows to get all the chromatic notes. He did not switch harmonicas during the show, and we were told he was not using a chromatic harmonica.

Most harmonica players are not as good as Howard Levy, but a person with a diatonic harmonica, setup properly for over bending, can potentially play in any key.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_techniques#Overbending
 
We don't necessarily have music fit for harmonica and we also tune a half step down but it never stops the occasional drunk guy to pull one out of his pocket and come up to the stage and start playing. These are not the musicians you guys let on your stages and I would never think to walk into a bar with my bass and start playing next to the stage so someone might ask me to play.
 
I'm blessed. The cover band I'm in now, two members play; the drummer plays pretty well, and only does small support parts on 2-3 songs, and one of the lead guitarists plays awesome harp solos on 3-4 songs. All very tasteful, appropriate, and restrained. It really adds a nice touch to our show.

The times I've seen the kind of nuisance players described here, they always seem to have a posse of "fans" who will egg them on and/or beg the band to let them play or play more/longer which, if they're good, is nice at first, but after a few songs I'm wishing someone would use the hook! There also seems to be something over-the-top about their personality like they're some kind of vaudeville entertainers or something. They're weird!!!

Invalid Link Removed