Hartke KB15 for doom?

[Doomguy99]

First of all, I'm not even sure if this is the right place to post this. If not, I'm sorry.

I am a guitarist but got a bass and amp about a year and a half ago to mess around with. While I did my research on the bass and picked a solid one, I did almost no research on the amp, which led to me buying the KB15 just because it was there.

Now that I'm taking the bass a bit more seriously, I'm trying to get a solid tone out of this thing and am getting nothing I particularly like. I play stoner and doom mainly, I like the tones of Tim Bagshaw era Electric Wizard, Bongzilla, Church of Misery, Sleep, and similar artists.

I'm wondering if my amp can even get me there? I've been fiddling around with the EQ and plugging in different fuzzes (Russian Muff, Big Muff Pi, Boss FZ-2). Maybe I don't understand how to set up a solid bass tone, maybe I'm stupider than I thought? Anyways, any kind of help would be appreciated, I'd love to get a tone out of this thing that I can love.

If it matters at all, I'm playing a Fender Player P Bass tuned to B Standard.

 

[MarkA]

Doom is not my area of expertise (thinking -- what is my area of expertise?), but when I think of big, thick, drop-tuned sounds, a modestly-sized Hartke combo isn't the first thing that comes to mind. (FWIW, to better understand where you're coming from, I am listening to some Electric Wizard through headphones as I type this.)

If you're planning to play that sort of music with a band, you're going to need more cab and probably more amp to cut it live. I associate Hartke (at least those combos) with fairly clean, bright, and not super-deep sounds, but I don't have a ton of experience with their stuff. Those who do might be able to offer up more.

To get that big, thick, sludgy low end, there are two basic approaches you can take, cab-wise: One is to get something that goes really low. Examples of this are cabs from Fearless, MAS, and a few others. The other, probably more common approach is to get something that doesn't actually go that low, but still will do big and thick -- Ampeg 810, Bergantino NV 610, and a bunch of ratty 2x15s scattered across stages and in garages worldwide are examples of this.

If I had to take a first stab at the kind of tone I'm hearing in my 'phones, front-end wise (Did I mention that pedals are also not my area of expertise?), I'd want a fuzz that retained a solid low end (I like my Amptweaker Bass Tight Fuzz), maybe an overdrive to go with it (though you might get some of that with the right head), and either a combination high/low pass filter or some kind of cab sim to go with those (Omni-cab Sim Deluxe looks interesting). With the right amp and cab (no tweeters for you), you might not need the last to nail the sound, but a high-pass filter will help keep your low end tight and help you to get the most out of a smaller amp. Through a more modern, hi-fi cab (or your Hartke combo, or if going direct to a board for FOH or recording), some sort of cab sim could be helpful.

Check the Pedals forum on this site -- they might have some solid suggestions for you. While not gear-driven, there are also a couple of Doom-centric threads on here where you might find kindred spirits who could advise you better than I can:

Your Favorite Stoner/Doom/Sludge Tone
Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

Are you just looking for practicing on your own right now? Reasonable volume jamming with friends? Actually hanging with loud guitars and big drums? Knowing will help people to help you. Since you're still relatively new to bass, I don't know that you need to go blow a lot of money right away -- too, while your current rig might not be the Doom ideal, I'm willing to bet that, at least within its volume capabilities, there are folks who can help you to get a more satisfactory sound out of it. If you learn to do this, then you'll be in better shape to choose your next rig and make good use of it when the time comes.

As far as the amp/cab-centric part of your query goes, you are in the right place!

Welcome to Talkbass! Sorry that I'm not of more help. Good luck!

 

[Doomguy99]

Doom is not my area of expertise (thinking -- what is my area of expertise?), but when I think of big, thick, drop-tuned sounds, a modestly-sized Hartke combo isn't the first thing that comes to mind. (FWIW, to better understand where you're coming from, I am listening to some Electric Wizard through headphones as I type this.)

If you're planning to play that sort of music with a band, you're going to need more cab and probably more amp to cut it live. I associate Hartke (at least those combos) with fairly clean, bright, and not super-deep sounds, but I don't have a ton of experience with their stuff. Those who do might be able to offer up more.

To get that big, thick, sludgy low end, there are two basic approaches you can take, cab-wise: One is to get something that goes really low. Examples of this are cabs from Fearless, MAS, and a few others. The other, probably more common approach is to get something that doesn't actually go that low, but still will do big and thick -- Ampeg 810, Bergantino NV 610, and a bunch of ratty 2x15s scattered across stages and in garages worldwide are examples of this.

If I had to take a first stab at the kind of tone I'm hearing in my 'phones, front-end wise (Did I mention that pedals are also not my area of expertise?), I'd want a fuzz that retained a solid low end (I like my Amptweaker Bass Tight Fuzz), maybe an overdrive to go with it (though you might get some of that with the right head), and either a combination high/low pass filter or some kind of cab sim to go with those (Omni-cab Sim Deluxe looks interesting). With the right amp and cab (no tweeters for you), you might not need the last to nail the sound, but a high-pass filter will help keep your low end tight and help you to get the most out of a smaller amp. Through a more modern, hi-fi cab (or your Hartke combo, or if going direct to a board for FOH or recording), some sort of cab sim could be helpful.

Check the Pedals forum on this site -- they might have some solid suggestions for you. While not gear-driven, there are also a couple of Doom-centric threads on here where you might find kindred spirits who could advise you better than I can:

Your Favorite Stoner/Doom/Sludge Tone
Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

Are you just looking for practicing on your own right now? Reasonable volume jamming with friends? Actually hanging with loud guitars and big drums? Knowing will help people to help you. Since you're still relatively new to bass, I don't know that you need to go blow a lot of money right away -- too, while your current rig might not be the Doom ideal, I'm willing to bet that, at least within its volume capabilities, there are folks who can help you to get a more satisfactory sound out of it. If you learn to do this, then you'll be in better shape to choose your next rig and make good use of it when the time comes.

As far as the amp/cab-centric part of your query goes, you are in the right place!

Welcome to Talkbass! Sorry that I'm not of more help. Good luck!

A lot of practicing on my own because I still suck pretty hard at bass, haha. Some jamming with friends but 90% of the time I'm just messing around alone.

Money is actually my main obstacle. Broke college kid. I can't really afford anything else and if I buy music gear it's going to be for guitar. I just love it more. Making this work somehow would be the best possible outcome for me.

I'm not the guy who NEEDS the exact Electric Wizard tone or whatever. I just want to get something pretty similar, have some fun when I'm messing around. I think that part of my slacking off in learning bass has to do with not having a tone that I like.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Doom typically makes use of huge cabs powered by tube amps to move a lot of air. It is good news for you because this kind of heavy old gear isn't in high demand these day.
Another good news, your amp is very powerful and can power external cabs.

In your situation I'd try to get my hands on the biggest 4 ohm cab I can find. Something like an 8x10 or 2x15. They are all over classifieds and pawn shops everywhere and sell for next to nothing.
I'd then use the combo for practice and use the big cab instead of the internal one to play with bands.
Doom tone is often on the verge of feedback so feel free to push gain really hard. If you hav ea noisegate pedal for your guitar gear it is time to use it.

Now to get doom tones in the bedroom I'd rely on headphones rather than an amp and cab.

 

[Doomguy99]

Believe me, I'd love to buy a nice, big cab but I don't have the money/space for it.

 

[MarkA]

Maybe try tweaking the title of this thread -- something like, "Best way to get Doom Tone out of a Small Amp?," "Help me get Doom Tone in Dorm Room/Bedroom," or "Stuck: Trying to get Doom tone out of my Hartke combo. Ideas?"

Maybe post a recording and mention the pedals you're using, their settings, and your amp settings.

I watched a video titled something like "How to Get Crushing Bass Tone --" just the first thing that came up on youtube. Guy was using a Line 6 Helix, splitting the signal, and parallel processing, but the take home, for me, was: 1) clean lows, 2) distorted highs, and 3) compression. Lots of tweaking you can do beyond that (he did use a noisegate in the Line 6, tweak the crossover point, roll off some of the buzzy highs, etc.), but those seemed to be the main points.

That said, I imagine that a lot of guys in Doom bands are managing fine without splitting their signal and doing all that other stuff -- that does seem to be one way to it, though.

The trick with distorted bass seems to be not letting the low end get wimpy and lost. There are some pedals (don't know which, but I've heard that they're out there) that manage to keep a full and present low end while distorting the full-range signal, but if you don't have one of those, something that lets you blend in clean low end can be helpful. I mentioned the Amptweaker Bass Tight Fuzz -- that's one. The Big Muff Pi Bass Deluxe (Is this the version you have, or do you have another?) is another (and has an adjustable crossover and gate built-in). Those are the only two fuzzes I've owned -- the EHX is more versatile, but the Amptweaker sounded meaner. There are others, I'm sure, and other ways to go about splitting your signal.

You can probably still improve on what you've got with the equipment you have, though -- again, post your settings, what you don't like about the results, and maybe a clip.

Good luck!

 

[Babadook]

Believe me, I'd love to buy a nice, big cab but I don't have the money/space for it.

I'm a metal bass player. I've played a lot of fuzz/distortion/OD pedals trying to get the tone I want out of the cheap amp I had at the time because I couldn't afford big cabs or nice tube amps. As crazy as it sounds, I think your best solution is what became my most important pedal on my board. A $30 equalizer pedal (Behringer BEQ700). That's right. It is the cheapest way to sculpt the tone to whatever you need it to be for the genre. It's by no means perfect, but given your budget and goals you'll get so much out of it. And if it doesn't workout, you only spent 30 bucks. I originally got it just as a mid-boost to cut through the band mix when playing live. But the more I played with it and understood bass eq, the more I realized how versatile it is. Depending on the fuzz your using it can sound better placed before or after it. Good luck!

 

[Dardas92]

I have the KB15.

I actually like the tone I get from it.

I would recommend messing with the "Shape" knob. You can get a lot of different tone from it. Having it lower makes it more bassy and heavier, turning it up more brings out the highs and leave it in the middle brings out the mids. I have mine around 1 oclock.

Sound also depends on your bass and its strings.

I m not sure what doom music sounds like but i'd imagine its more low end and heavy?