Has anyone here ran EMG HZs fully passive with no preamp?

[Dincrest]

I know I'm probably walking into a minefield here since EMG HZs are much maligned pickups here on TalkBass. People either query about replacing them or replacing whatever preamps are paired with them.

But has anyone here gone in the opposite direction? Ditching preamps altogether and just running HZs fully passive? No preamps, no batteries, no nothing. Just HZs coupled with your basic V/V/T (or reasonable facsimile) setup.

If so, how did you like the results?

I also know that pretty much every bass with HZs attaches a preamp to it so there are almost no examples of HZ-equipped basses with fully passive configurations. But someone out there must have done it, right?

In my limited search, the few stray replies I've seen here and there say that EMG HZs don't sound as horrible as everyone says when run fully passive. A few have said they even sound good.

So, yeah, EMG HZs run fully passive... thoughts?

Thanks for humoring me and satisfying my curiosity. When it comes to pickups, I'm more of a Seymour Duncan guy personally, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Northfear]

I like them personally. They're pretty neutral. Maybe a bit too neutral for some people. Quite aggressive with split coils.

Most people probably change them because they want something more "bassy". But I really loved how they sounded with split coils in the heavy mix.

 

[Jazz Ad]

They're not bad but they sound bland, characterless. WHich is just fine if you want to use a preamp. By itself, meh.
As an alternative, I got good results with a Tonestyler. The mid bump worked fine to give character.

 

[DWBass]

I was under the impression that they didn't need a preamp.

 

[UntitledUser]

I have a guitar with them not a bass. (guitar is my secondary instrument, just for fun)
In the guitar they sound very good if you know how to use them (and in the right genre...I would say: rock)
In my opinion they have a bad reputation only because they lower output than active version (so active pickup lovers are not happy) but at the same time they don't have a vintage character (so vintage pu lovers are not happy).
Infact they push more on mids side instead of being airy and open like for example les paul humbucker pickups, but if you need mids, distortion and Rock... they are good (guitar) pickups.
I don't know if it the same considerations apply for the bass version.

 

[Dincrest]

I was under the impression that they didn't need a preamp.

They don't. They are a fully passive pickup. It's just that pretty much any bass equipped with HZs has a preamp attached to it. And many folks on TB post about swapping for a better preamp to couple to their HZs. The only bass I can think of that runs HZs fully passive is the Spector Mike Kroeger model. Ergo, finding information about HZs run fully passive seems scarce.

Thanks for those samples, @Northfear. I'll listen to them when I'm home after work.

 

[Dincrest]

And after listening to those kindly provided samples by @Northfear - Yo, that sample with the pickups in series was a gut punch. Me likey! While I prefer the smoothness I get from a bass I run full passive with a pair of Seymour Duncan Phase-II soapbars, those EMG HZs run full passive sound quite good. Way better than I was expecting. Maybe more people should consider running EMG HZs fully passive.

They're not bad but they sound bland, characterless. WHich is just fine if you want to use a preamp. By itself, meh.

What's interesting is that reading your post made me MORE interested in EMG HZ's run fully passive. What someone may see as "colorless" I may see as "organic" because I don't like much coloring in my tone. I favor a more organic base tone and using my fingers to add dynamics. That's a big reason why I prefer passive in the first place. So I'm intrigued by HZs being perceived as "neutral" sounding. Even my choice of amp doesn't color my tone much at all, and I love it.

I recently acquired a Spector ReBop 5 DLX from a fellow TBer and while I adore pretty much everything about the bass, I do not like the TonePump preamp at all. However, it has EMG-HZs so I'm thinking of having my luthier rewire it fully passive.

I've "de-active-ated" basses in the past and they always sounded better to my ears unburdened by preamps.

 

[JRA]

so: what's stopping you from trying them --- HZs, totally passive? thanks.

 

[Dincrest]

Just time and money right now.

 

[IBJammin]

I have a Schecter Omen 5 that I gutted and have been experimenting with EMGs (love the solderless - don't judge!). I started with the HZs, all passive V/V/T/T. (This is when I learned all about insertion loss, and the need for a buffered balance control.) I guess the reports of them sounding "sterile" or "bland" are kind of accurate. Maybe its just the highs that seem to grate on my ears. I added the EMG HZ Bass and Treble EQ, which includes the buffered balance control. As other reports have stated, EMG EQs at flat do pass the pickups pretty much untouched. Next step was replace the EQ back to passive tones but keep the balance knob (pickup->tone->balance for both). Even though I was using the passive tone controls, the balance control needs 9v, so now at this point it may not be considered "fully passive", but all in all, all configurations sounded pretty much the same. Rolling off or cutting the treble still something grated my ears or got to a point where it just didn't sound good with no treble, and the bass frequencies weren't so punchy. Lack of mid control? Idk.
All other basses that I have heard with HZs have a preamp that usually flavors it enough to my liking - my main bass is an Ibanez SRA 505 with HZs. Smoother, rounder sound, even at flat EQ.

 

[Dincrest]

Thanks for your insight.

 

[IBJammin]

I too am/was on an organic journey, hence my first stop was the all passive Hzs. My conclusion was I just don't like the ceramic magnet sound, without proper Eq. This came after numerous tube vids of ceramic vs alnico clips, multiple forums describing the differences, as well as my own experience.
I have a passive dual humbucker Ibanez guitar. Didn't like the stock ceramic pups for same reason (too brittle, grating to my ears), put in some cheap alnico pups and l liked it much better. So much smoother. Just recently swapped those pups out for Emg H1a/H2a pair. Loving those more! Also got active Ibanez guitar with Emg 81/60 pair. Same thing, brittle, grating. Looking to replace that pair with their alnico brethren 85/60a to see if the same thing holds true.
Anyway, that is my experience. Ymmv. Enjoy the journey!

 

[Dincrest]

See, I'm cool with ceramic magnets. I had one of my basses "de-active-ated" to a pair of passive Duncan soapbars with a V/V/T setup and loved the tone much more.

With my ReBop, it has the older TonePump without the trimpot. I keep the bass and treble boosts all the way down but even then, it's too hot for my liking. I feel like the TonePump is a love/it hate it preamp, and I am in the "hate it" camp. I prefer playing the bass unplugged. I have a feeling extracting the TonePump and running the HZs fully passive will work out for me in the end.

EDIT: I'll probably have my trusted luthier do that next summer along with the annual setup, since I'll have time to leave the bass with him.

 

[greenscharlie]

See, I'm cool with ceramic magnets. I had one of my basses "de-active-ated" to a pair of passive Duncan soapbars with a V/V/T setup and loved the tone much more.

With my ReBop, it has the older TonePump without the trimpot. I keep the bass and treble boosts all the way down but even then, it's too hot for my liking. I feel like the TonePump is a love/it hate it preamp, and I am in the "hate it" camp. I prefer playing the bass unplugged. I have a feeling extracting the TonePump and running the HZs fully passive will work out for me in the end.

EDIT: I'll probably have my trusted luthier do that next summer along with the annual setup, since I'll have time to leave the bass with him.

And what is the result ? 35HZ passiv any good ? Or Duncan better ?

 

[Dincrest]

That... never happened. I no longer have that Spector.

However, I do have an LTD F-205 with EMG-HZs and an active preamp that I eventually want de-active-ated.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

I once owned a Schecter bass with EMG 35hz pickups with active preamp.

The solderless system is great but that's where my fun experience with them starts and stops.

To me they had to much mids and way to much top end for my liking. Very HiFi.. (great if you finger tap, slap and pop, noodle all over the neck or want to play like a lead guitarist.... but thats not my style) and rather unpleasant lows that lacked smoothness and lost low end definition which just didn't work for me. NoFi
They were either to brittle, sharp and harsh or to muddy, boomy, wet fartish.
The preamp died, within the first week of ownership.. Love the solderless system...
Thought that might be the problem causing the poor quality tone. Replaced the preamp. Love the solderless system. Nope! That was their tone.
2nd preamp died a few weeks later. Perhaps it really was a preamp problem re: tone quality?
So I abandoned the preamp and had them wired passive VVTT. Nope! Harsh, shrill at one end and mud, fart, dull and lacklustre at the other end. From HiFi to NoFi with very little in-between.
Tech changed the pots with different values... Nope!
HiFi/NoFi and nothing in between.
EMG's just didn't work for me at all.
EMG's went in the bin.
Now I avoid EMG's like the plague as well as any bass with them installed.

I'm glad you like them but IMO, I'd rip them out and get some DiMarzio pickups in there.

 

[greenscharlie]

ok, model one.
or G&L Mfd, but cant find that in europe.
Or just some duncan Hotrails for the Bronco ?

 

[Dincrest]

Passive soapbars are my favorite style of pickup.

Thus far, my favorites are the Duncan SSBs I have on a heavily modded 4-string I've had for 11-12 years. It's probably my best sounding bass (or at least that's what everyone I've played with tells me). (I used to have a MIG Warwick and when I had a luthier gut the active MEC electronics in favor of Duncan STK-J2s and a passive setup, the tone opened up).

Second place might have to be the ESP house brand pickups and electronics I have on a NOS LTD D-5 I bought earlier this year. I never quite understood some bass players' need to immediately swap them out. I've tried passive soapbar humbuckers from other manufacturers over the years and the ESP house brand ones are up there. I might have that bass de-active-ated too, with those ESP soapbars run with a passive V/V/T setup.

Third would be EMG-HZs; to me they're a good bread-and-butter soapbar, but the ESPs seem to have more personality. I can't afford new pickups right now, so I'll likely keep the HZs in my F-205 and have my luthier de-active-ate it. I'll see how I like it, though if money were no object I would very likely swap out for Duncans because I already know I love 'em.

Last place is Bartolini MK-1s. Yeah, I know they're not "real" Barts and I shouldn't compare, but I once had a bass modded with Bartolini 59CBJDs (real Bartolini J-style 'buckers) and I didn't like those at all either. I guess I'm just not a fan of the Bartolini sound.

 

[thrashingbass]

The Bello LTD bass is/was red-colored PJ EMG HZ, fully passive (it is still available in some places-haven't played it.)

If it works for you, go for it-if it doesn't, do not. Hivemind is not always the right answer, especially in music. Definitely not a vintage tone, nor an EMG DC tone, which is why it's not loved by either camp. From what I have heard, it's not really a bad pickup, and I would prefer them over DCs just because I do not prefer purely active pickup systems.

 

[Dincrest]

The only bass I know for sure that has EMG-HZs with a fully passive setup is the Spector Mike Kroger sig model, but any tone demos of that bass are few, far between, and often of poor quality.