Have Cab, Need Speakers

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Count Bassie, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    I realize this is quite "Newbie" of me. But I'll just walk into it...

    It's backwards. I mean I have WinSID, but that's only good, apparently, for desiging cabs for speakers. I want to match speakers to an existing cab. I have a 410 cab made, apparently, by an EAW employee on his 'off' time... it's an odd-ball I think.

    It's a very compact 410, though it's around 18" deep. The baffle is straight for the bottom two speakers, and slants back at a 30-degree angle for the top two speakers. It's made of 5/8 ply, and apparently very well constructed.



    A vertical separator divides the cab into 2 sealed 2x10s. The cab is sealed, no porting at all. The inside dimensions are 20" tall X 17 1/2" deep X 19 3/4" wide (total width, center divider notwithstanding). Minimal 5/8" bracing, 2 strips at 1 3/4" wide in each half of the two vertically divided compartments.

    The speakers pictured are just set into the cab for scale/perspective, you know. They are from an old Avatar 210 I no longer have, long story, never mind. :)

    I want to paint the thing black and stick some speakers in it. Any good advice about finding drivers for it? Thanks for patience, and your time!
  2. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Being sealed narrows it down a bit.

    Emi. B810's for an 8ohm, sort of 1/2 SVT sound.

    Deltalite 10's also work alright in sealed and a bit of weight savings.

    Beta 10's for a bit of Berg. NV 610 sound on a slightly smaller scale.

    Any of those options would end up as an 8ohm cab.

    8ohm drivers wired in series/parallel.....32ohm SVT replacements ( the B810 ), all in parallel.

    You can measure the interior volume of your box, plug that into WinISD, and load those drivers in it to see their respective curves. It's a bit like using the program backwards, using your current fixed box size, then plugging different drivers in it to see what they'll do.
  3. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    I thought probably so...

    Nice info, thanks!

    Right, I get the 'backwards' take- I was kind of hoping this would be relatively easy, and you've provided nice concise info.

    Many thanks for the insights Will! :cool:
  4. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass Inactive

    Sep 14, 2010
    after removing some length to account for thickness of the wood
    and try to figure something closer to the actual internal volume
    it was around 3.5 cubic feet so each compartment is closer to

    so if you want to compare speakers in WinIsd I would look at a pair
    of what your interested in. By loading them in a sealed box and set the volume to 1.3 or 1.5

    most single 10"s do well in 1 cubic feet but going to 1.5 to 2 cubic for some.
    So in your case each speaker maybe is seeing around .6 to .8 cubic feet.....and that is really ringing a bell with a certain Eminence driver. I think the PDF recommends a .8 enclosure.
    but that is for a small wedge on a highpass. I cant remember which one....?

    powerhandling will be great for this cabinet, but dont expect alot of bass. overall between being stuffed like crazy and deep it should work ok.
    But some 10's might have "more bass" so maybe a legend B810 seems like a ok choice. but at 93dB or so...meh. maybe even a Delta 10 which is in the 96dB range would make this thing loud as heck. and trading off the bass with that driver might not be a big deal because we are still looking at .5 to .8 per speaker.
  5. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    So the good depth makes up for bass you'd otherwise not be getting?... I may also eventually run this cab with a dedicated lows cab, so that could be fine, to not get a ton of low-bass out of this cab.

    Could even run it with my 3015 (non-LF) loaded TL-606, not bi-amped, to give it the bump. Total 4 ohm load from my old Trace AH250.

    I do wonder if I'm wasting my time though! Can anyone outline why a sealed cab is a good thing?
  6. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    How about Hartke 10s?
  7. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    Sealed cabs have a smoother frequency response that rolls off on the low end much more gradual than ported cabs (ported cabs have humps in the low end response). The down side is inefficiency.
  8. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass Inactive

    Sep 14, 2010
    maybe that is your call, your talking 69 to 100 bucks per speaker

    so your looking at a 300 to 400 dollar budget.
    Some used 4x10 cabs can go for 250 to 350.

    many of them loaded with legends like B810 or the BP102
    and other special design factory speakers that fall between a BP102 and a Beta.

    so either take time and compare pairs of speakers in WinIsd.
    if you really feel like being crafty and touching up a semi finished cab. you gonna need handles and casters and paint..
    etc etc...maybe a used 250dollar cabinet makes sense...

    you can steal the parts and drivers from a used cabinet, if your really stuck on it....or just use the one you buy......

    there is some cheapo speakers that might keep up with a Beta or a Delta but be in the 50 dollar range not 70.
    but you would have to model them a decide for yourself.
    there is cheapos like peavey low 10 or celestion tf1020
    or selenium 10pw3. i'm not recommending those, but they might perform similar to some eminence drivers and save you 100bucks. cheap speakers will always be cheap speakers.
    or possibly not i have not heard or modeled any of them...might be worth a try its free....
  9. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    Is there any reason why you couldn't cut a couple of holes, install some plastic ports, and convert it into a ported cab? If so, maybe try one 4" diameter port, 6" long, per side, tuning the box to the lower 50's. Not that that's necessarily the ideal tuning for whatever woofers you end up with, but just to give you a ballpark idea of what you can do.
  10. Arjank


    Oct 9, 2007
    Above Amsterdam

    I would like to add that one needs to remove all the stuffing when converting it into a bassreflex cab and just do some lining on the walls to only absorb mid/high-frequencies.
  11. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    Yeah, I should've just walked out of that music store! Lol! :p

    The porting idea had occurred to me, but since it's sealed I thought I was perhaps cutting out some math! I'm always willing to cut out some math... but ending up with something actually useful is desirable.

    I have a 5 gallon bucket of parts here, handles and corners and such, and a nice expanded metal grill that looks to just about be a perfect fit. Also I thought maybe one of those pull-up handles would be a gig-friendly idea, and some tilt-back casters for airport-style cartage...

    Likely what I'll do is set 'er in my little shop and bring it down to the shell, paint it up and get the exterior hardware on, and just save up gig money while I model speakers. That will keep it meaningful while it sits quietly, waiting, threatening to become ballast.

    Since it's probably not going to carry a lot of deep bass presence, maybe I could even design up a small sub to pair up with it? A little thing with a 12" or something, that would be a similar depth and width for stack-ability (and stage present-ability) with the 410... I'm not in a hurry to get 'er finished, I've got a decent pair of cabs to gig with- so ideas have some space to knock around.

    I'm only doing this because I have to have something to dig into! Sort of a really bad way to try and keep my head on straight while I do what we're all doing- taking my daily bloody nose!... :ninja:
  12. dhomer

    dhomer Commercial User

    Apr 9, 2009
    Hickory Corners, MI
    Owner, Gigmaster Soundworks, Auth. greenboy designs builder, MI
    Get an internal volume, and run some BP102's through the ISD.. Probably not ideal solution, but it should work ok for a closed box.. Years ago I did that combined it with an 18"sub. good for what it was until I realized I could sound better for less heft..
  13. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    I like the idea of a lot of punch from 10s that an SVT offers. I'm curious to see how much of that I can get for a small room gig, small club, etc.
  14. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    Okay, I've AxBxC'd the internal dimensions (inches) to get volume, and I end up with 7,175. I know I'm a math idiot, but is this reasonable? Not counting the divider and minimal bracing...

    17.5 x 20 x 20.5...
  15. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    I'm taking it that a bass reflex will be more efficient for representing lows? I think I know this, but I sometimes surprise myself. :p
  16. will33


    May 22, 2006
    That seems pretty big. You using internal dimensions and taking into account the angled back top half?
  17. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    Doh! :rolleyes: Those are internal dimensions, but I forgot to account for the missing volume due to the angle, right: A 30-degree angle from the middle of the baffle up to the top of the cab. But it's a deep, chunky booger, yep.
  18. Count Bassie

    Count Bassie Supporting Member

    Jun 10, 2006
    Smithfield, RI
    My geometry is only so-so... I'm off to a kid's recital, and a rehearsal following, but I'll check back in tonight to take my thrashing! Lol!
  19. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Maybe the box size is right for a 2x10. You could block the open holes, or put a port into one of them. Or, cut off the angled top and use it as a 2x10.
  20. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    Personally I would try it as a sealed cab first, you might really like the sound. That way no holes to fill in later? :)

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