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Have scales ruined music?

#121
Interesting side discussion about what chords are. I've always been taught that chords consist of three notes because two only shows an interval and often isn't enough to show a 'completed' tonality. For example, you have a B and a D. Obviously that must be a minor chord, but if you add a G you suddenly have a major tone despite the minor third interval between the B and D.
 
#122
jmattbassplaya said:
Interesting side discussion about what chords are. I've always been taught that chords consist of three notes because two only shows an interval and often isn't enough to show a 'completed' tonality. For example, you have a B and a D. Obviously that must be a minor chord, but if you add a G you suddenly have a major tone despite the minor third interval between the B and D.
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Right, but the real question is: when you play a B, what chord are you thinking of? It could be B minor or it could be G major and your thought of that chord influences where you go next. If you apply that consciousness to every note, you are playing chordally.
 
#124
edwinhurwitz said:
Right, but the real question is: when you play a B, what chord are you thinking of? It could be B minor or it could be G major and your thought of that chord influences where you go next. If you apply that consciousness to every note, you are playing chordally.
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Are you saying that you are unable to determine what chord these two notes make? Evidently, it's a Bb3 chord. That would be a B major (the B is capitalized after all) with a flatted 3rd.
 
#125
jmattbassplaya said:
Interesting side discussion about what chords are. I've always been taught that chords consist of three notes because two only shows an interval and often isn't enough to show a 'completed' tonality. For example, you have a B and a D. Obviously that must be a minor chord,
but if you add a G you suddenly have a major tone despite the minor third interval between the B and D.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct, as far as it goes - it is all about context. But not all musical contexts are tonal. Consider this famous chord:

Fb-Ab-Cb-G-Bb-Db-Eb

How does it function? Major, minor, what? It isn't readily explained by the usual tonal harmonic analysis tools, other than a vague "polychord" designation.

It is all about context, as you rightly point out. That B/D that you have up there, what does it mean when you add a C# to it?

My point is this - if you have enough experience with non-tonal music, it isn't necessary to hear this as an incomplete triad - it could be all kinds of things. Hearing it as an unfinished triad is cultural habit, nothing more.

GT
 
#127
Turock said:
Are you saying that you are unable to determine what chord these two notes make? Evidently, it's a Bb3 chord. That would be a B major (the B is capitalized after all) with a flatted 3rd.
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No, I'm saying those two notes could be components of many chords, the choice of which are clear by context. However, I'm not sure what a B major chord would be doing with a flat third unless it's actually a minor chord or a #9 in an altered dominant scenario.
 
#131
And . . . this is the smartest thing said in this thread.

BassmanSBK said:
Precisely. If you are playing a G-major blues, you cannot start start wanking around the G scale, as if anything in the scale fit at any time. Rather, you need to play G chord tones over the I chord, C over the IV chord, D over V chord--using appropriate passing tones between chords.

Yes, yes, I know that "The chords come from the scale. You have to know the scale to know the chords." True, and Carol wouldn't disagree. But when you are playing over the I chord in a G-major blues, pedaling a C sounds like ass. Yes, it is in the scale, but it is really only a passing tone from B to D.

That's what Carol Kaye means. And, it (like just about everything she says) is really good advice.
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#133
Considering that Carol Kaye played some of the most memorable bass lines in the universe, I take what she says very seriously. Her whole 'chord-tone' approach really changed the way I play and helped me fit in with different genres. It's been pretty challenging to learn, and at times I've wanted to throw my bass against a wall, but it's been worth it. (Anything that's a pain in the a__ usually is.) It's also helped me feel like more of a MUSICIAN, as opposed to just a guy with a bass.
 
#134
Regarding the "how many notes in a chord" argument:

rats-ass.jpg
 

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