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Double Bass Have you ever been in a situatation

Sep 24, 2011
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where the conductor has miscounted bars and turns your way to expect to hear something when it is clearly not due? I wonder if, in this situation, the default is to go with the conductor (and how often you hear "trust me") OR to stick to what you believe the piece is at..How much do you rely entirely on the conductor, particularly during those long (40 bars +) breaks, to count you in? I tend to count and just look to make sure, but have been in the situation described, and lucky for me, I had paid attention :-)
Regards to all
 
A local orchestra had a conductor of fame, who was great at PR and admin work, but who really wasn't that good at counting tempo... It was so serious that the concert master had to tap his feet so the orchestra could keep track, a big no-no in most situations. But the conductor was well loved and did a lot for the orchestra. Like in this situation, you might find it more reliable to watch the concert master.
 
I can't say I've ever been in this situation. All the conductors I work with know how to read scores.
40 bars is nothing. Always do your own counting and play when your part comes in again. If the conductor turns to you at the wrong time, don't compound their mistake by starting to play in the wrong place.
 
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Don"be afraid to pencil in small cues - the entries of other instruments - to help you stay on track, or split up the many bars rest into blocks. Eg, ____20_____l_(Vcl)____36________l (play) instead of l_________56__________l. Please excuse my graphics.

Vln. Vla. Vcl. DB. Fl. Ob. Cl. Bn. etc are common abbreviations. Only ever mark your parts with soft lead pencil. But I'm sure you know all this !!
 
Follow your principal. That way if you are all wrong, you’re at least wrong together. If you are the principal and you can’t understand the conductor, follow the concertmaster or ask for clarification. My point of view is that the conductor is always right even when they are wrong. Give them what they want, at the level of musicianship it takes to become a conductor, they should be able to hear their mistake, perhaps not admit it, but at least fix it later. If you need a better cue from the conductor, have your principal ask for it if the whole section is struggling. Or perhaps your principal could give you the cue if it’s something they are grasping and you’re not. The conductor should want the best performance possible and if that means having to toss in an extra cue to the bass section, it would be hard to find a justification not to. Playing in an orchestra I’ve always considered myself as part of the conductors instrument. I just do what I’m told. I’ve never played in anything higher than college level symphony so maybe the bigger leagues see it differently though, I don’t know. You could also think about it kind of in a military way. Your section leader is your Sargent, concertmaster some mid level officer, colonel we’ll say, and the conductor is the general. Follow the chain of command. It’s nice if you understand the complete battle plan, but not necessary. Follow your Sargent and do your part, it’s your Sargent’s job to interpret the orders from the top. Fall in line and do what you’re told.
 
How a conductor starts Beethoven 5 is often confusing and entertaining. Everyone will watch and follow the concertmaster like a hawk.

On those long rests in any piece one really has to watch the conductor to not miss variations in tempo. I often make pencil notes when different instruments have entrances. The score, downloaded to my iPad from imslp.org, is very informative to see how the bass part fits in.
 
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In the orchestra that I'm principal in we play in a couple of different halls and in one of them I'm placed way to the side and slightly behind the conductor. It makes it difficult to see gestures clearly at all times but I'm used to that. I will ask for guidance if there is some particular reason I need a specific cue for a passage or entrance. I've always preferred the European setup with the basses across the back of the orch for several reasons but most conductors won't go for it.
 
In my view, it would depend on the circumstances! If you have a good conductor whom you trust, and you're not 100% sure you're right, follow the conductor. If you're rank and file, follow your principal. In all circumstances, know your part and count! Only disregard a cue if you're the principal and you're absolutely 100% certain that you're right, and even then at your risk!!!
 
IMHO many cues are more about forging and sustaining mental connections, than functional. Keep in mind, while a good conductors motions help direct and engage the ensemble, they also direct and engage the audience.

IMHO a good conductor gives cues at the proper time and place, but most are not essential during a performance. As player, you should strive to be self-sufficient and not rely on cues. However, some cues are helpful in the interpretation. For example, if you are playing through a rubato section, then a good cue can help with precise note placement and how you shape the note and phrase.

A conductor may also give preparatory cues that occur earlier than the actual event.

If a mistake is made, there is no need to continue fixating on it after the fact.
 
Don"be afraid to pencil in small cues - the entries of other instruments - to help you stay on track, or split up the many bars rest into blocks. Eg, ____20_____l_(Vcl)____36________l (play) instead of l_________56__________l. Please excuse my graphics.

Vln. Vla. Vcl. DB. Fl. Ob. Cl. Bn. etc are common abbreviations. Only ever mark your parts with soft lead pencil. But I'm sure you know all this !!
I should by now, given all the advice from you and fellow DB players here, David!! ;-)
 

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