Having issues with the keyboardist

[Jensby design]

Right off the bat I was not thrilled... Sure enough... We is left hand heavy and lives ringing out chords.

I'm a bassist who likes to move around the neck and throwin fills here and there...

Been there.
I tuned to a low F# sometimes as low as D0. Trust me nobody gets in your way when you're that low.
The other thing that helped was an envelope filter
It does change the way you play when you're constantly getting ran over
Doesn't have to be a bad thing but you and keyboardist need some communication.

 

[DWBass]

I personally don't like anyone in my sonic space. It ends up causing me to turn up which ends up in being asked to turn down and then I'll explain to them why I do what I do. Everybody in the band cannot play bass. It's just that simple! I did a sub gig once several years ago and the keyboard player was so left hand heavy I just stopped playing and started to play the timbales!

Y'all need to have a band meeting now and hash things out. Saying nothing and letting things boil over is not good.

 

[t77mackie]

At least once a week rehearse and work on the songs with just you, him and the drummer. You should be doing this anyway with the drummer already.

Good luck!

 

[ChrisB2]

Note that 'good' in this context is not the same thing as virtuoso. Even fairly mediocre keyboardists can be assets and the guys who can solo brilliantly often cause the most problems. This is really about understanding how to play with other musicians.

Great point. Popular music typically utilizes keys in a sparse manner, with parts that are often only notes. Such parts in the higher range of the keyboard can mesh wonderfully with bass. My mind immediately goes to the intro of Black Magic Woman. Almost anyone could play that keys part, and the interplay with the bass is superb... but the song does not have full two-handed keyboard chords being played throughout. This is fairly typical of popular western music.

Full two-handed chords are great when keys/piano is the only instrument. In a band, it's a disaster. Maybe you can find a friendly way to say that... just point out some songs that represent proper playing.

And yes you may have to modify your parts to mesh with the keys but if done properly the new sound would probably be much better.

Last thing you want to do is tolerate full range chords ruining your band's sound. That has to be dealt with. Good luck!

 

[DionClassic]

Y'all need to have a band meeting now and hash things out. Saying nothing and letting things boil over is not good.

Yeah we are meeting up today before our show... He hasn't started playing live with us year so this show should be fine... Sometimes I feel like I'm the party pooper because everyone else seems to be on board... I'm feeling less hostile towards the idea though. I found that when he played organ it sounded way better and it didn't cut into my tone and sonic space as much... Maybe he can just play organ and stay away from piano...

The other thing is I haven't actually played with him and my full rig yet I have a deluxe p bass with a tube head and 2x15 that usually sit really nice in the mix so I guess there needs to be more experimenting...

I appreciate all the input though... It's nice to see that there has been similar feeling in similar situations amoungst you guys...

If there are any other tips you may have for me or the keyboardist let me know as we will be trying stuff out in practice as much as we can.

 

[jefkritz]

Let the keyboard player know that he needs to move it to the right!

Pretty much every keyboard players I've ever played with played too much on the bass side. When I asked nicely for them to be considerate of sonic space and play higher stuff, some listened and some didn't. The ones that listened turned out to be amazing assets to the band. The ones that didn't listen... well let's just say we're not in bands together any more.

 

[jefkritz]

On the other side, unison key and bass lines sound awesome. This is a common thing in some latin music, and can have a great effect.

 

[remainthesame]

You say "all of a sudden" does this mean that you had no idea the others were debating about bringing this person on?

Is this a band where everybody has equal say? Or is there a leader? Because, if you are a band that votes, I would be very upset if I went to practice and there was a new member. Especially if I didn't have a vote, and double especially if I wasn't even informed of the vote in the first place.

 

[DionClassic]

You say "all of a sudden" does this mean that you had no idea the others were debating about bringing this person on?

There was definitely talk about it... But the announcement during the show was cuz our vocalist/guitarist was being his drunken useless self and decided to swear him in publicly...

I was pretty pissed about it because we talked about it before and it was only going to be if what he was playing worked. It is a democratic band but the way I would put it is like lead guitarist and vocalist/guitarist get 60% of the say while bass and drums are at 40%...

I was approached and was told that this wouldn't be official until we all vote on it... There's just lots of little annoyances happening in the meantime.

I really think it may benefit us I just hope he wants to contribute and if that means less is more... I hope he understands....

I think once we write newer tunes it'll be easier to work it out... Maybe its just hard to find a place for him in our older stuff...

I do like the transparency and sound of a four piece... But I also think that an organ adds that vibe that scratches where most itch if we'll placed.

 

[DionClassic]

Great point. Popular music typically utilizes keys in a sparse manner, with parts that are often only notes. Such parts in the higher range of the keyboard can mesh wonderfully with bass. My mind immediately goes to the intro of Black Magic Woman. Almost anyone could play that keys part, and the interplay with the bass is superb... but the song does not have full two-handed keyboard chords being played throughout. This is fairly typical of popular western music.

Full two-handed chords are great when keys/piano is the only instrument. In a band, it's a disaster. Maybe you can find a friendly way to say that... just point out some songs that represent proper playing.

And yes you may have to modify your parts to mesh with the keys but if done properly the new sound would probably be much better.

Last thing you want to do is tolerate full range chords ruining your band's sound. That has to be dealt with. Good luck!

I agree with this 100% and it really sums up how I feel quite nicely... I think the 2 handed full range chords need to stop and go from there

 

[Stumbo]

Show the KB player the attached bass fret freq. chart and ask him not to play anything below the D below middle C(which is the D (147 hz) on the G string. Even put a piece of tape or something on the keyboard as a reminder. Check out the piano keys/freqs here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

This way you'll have some actual music facts to talk about.

If that doesn't work, just keep raising the bass fret freq. that the KB should play below until everything is balanced. Also ask him to not play individual bass notes that might conflict with your lines. Usually anything more than 5 fingered left hand chords is too much.

Though bass has always been my main instrument, I was a fake boardist for a couple of years back in the day playing a Hammond/Fender Rhodes setup. I always left lots of room for the bass and guitar players. It's easy to do if you're listening to the whole band.

Also, for the piano, turning down the bass (a lot) on the KB amp is the way to go.

 

[HolmeBass]

Well, most inexperienced keyboardist overplay until they learn how to blend with a band - and veteran players know better - so good luck and best wishes.

+100

A keyboardist who is actually a keyboardist, rather than a pianist, will know how to play sparsely and keep their volume low most of the time.

People who are more used to playing piano by themselves, and pounding out something with their left hand to keep time - watch out! Difficult learning curve ahead.

 

[DionClassic]

+100

A keyboardist who is actually a keyboardist, rather than a pianist, will know how to play sparsely and keep their volume low most of the time.

People who are more used to playing piano by themselves, and pounding out something with their left hand to keep time - watch out! Difficult learning curve ahead.

Yeah... This guy is actually a pianist so you're bang on haha. Definitely likes being loud and ringing out chords and such... Hopefully its not tough to turn him into a weapon

 

[mussla]

I play in a band with a keyboard player. He is a great asset but when we started out if was a pain as he constantly played bass notes.

I had several chats with him about it and also sent links to pdfs for pianists playing in a band (can't find the url right now). This helped but it was a process to get him to change his habit of playing bass notes. Now when this is sorted he adds lots to our sound.

 

[Kragnorak]

One thing to point out: His left hand will generally be in the same frequencies as both bass and guitar. His right hand will naturally sit higher than guitar chords and on par with the notes of guitar solos. Therefore a smart keyboardist will focus on those frequencies that are empty, without going so high that it sounds "tinkly".

 

[tbirdsp]

People who are more used to playing piano by themselves, and pounding out something with their left hand to keep time - watch out! Difficult learning curve ahead.

I recently quit a band because of a guy like this. Does lots of solo/duo gigs. Even worse - his "keeping time" sucked. He would rarely use any sound except piano, even though we were doing pop music with organ, synth, horns, strings, etc. It wasn't just that he walked on me - he was too busy EVERYWHERE. There was no talking to him about anything though - he is always right

 

[DionClassic]

I recently quit a band because of a guy like this. Does lots of solo/duo gigs. Even worse - his "keeping time" sucked. He would rarely use any sound except piano, even though we were doing pop music with organ, synth, horns, strings, etc. It wasn't just that he walked on me - he was too busy EVERYWHERE. There was no talking to him about anything though - he is always right

Yeah I can't stand that... Good on ya for moving on

 

[klokker]

I agree. It's a deal breaker for me in my weekend warrior bands. Most of the time, even with relatively inexperience keyboard players you can get them to EQ out the low stuff and it basically works. But it's no fun gettting walked on all the time.

Sometimes you'll join a band where the bass player didn't do much and the keyboard player had to pick up some bass parts, so you have to work that out as well.

If not, I have to go which I've only had to do once.

Usually, when the keyboard player gets rid of all that super sonic low, the band just sounds better as well. Same for bass players IME.

 

[The Sloth]

I think it's possible to play bass with a pianist who wants to use the lower register. It's about mix at that point. One of the two instruments has to own the space though, just like in recording - the bass or bass drum has the authority, the other is thinned out. Most bassists believe they own that space, so they won't compromise their tone, even if it would improve the sound of the band. Low piano and bass:

 

[SnowCal]

I think it's possible to play bass with a pianist who wants to use the lower register. It's about mix at that point. One of the two instruments has to own the space though, just like in recording - the bass or bass drum has the authority, the other is thinned out. Most bassists believe they own that space, so they won't compromise their tone, even if it would improve the sound of the band. Low piano and bass:

It's like a bad indie show. Everyone standing there with arms folded. You can tell they loved all those guitar solos.