Having trouble hearing low note fundamentals

[MackieBass]

Im playing bass through my A7X monitors, generally going down to G# at the lowest. However Im noticing even in B standard Im really struggling to hear the notes when playing along with tracks. Playing the bass standalone its better, but the low note definition is just completely lost when jamming with tracks.

I really can't hear the fundamental at all. Just to say, Im not tone deaf or anything, my ear training level is quite good. I think this is purely the low frequency wavelengths are so long they're just going right past me.

What approaches can I use to help with this? Low cut/EQ/Amps etc?

Thanks!

 

[equill]

Just checking: is that G# above, or below, bottom E in standard tuning?

 

[Mushroo]

The reason you're not hearing anything below Low E fundamental is because your Adam A7X monitors have a frequency response of 42 Hz - 50 kHz.

ADAM Audio - A7X Active Studio Monitor (Nearfield)

This is considered desirable and good. Most audiences do not enjoy being pummeled by sub-bass frequencies. Our ears can identify the pitch from the overtones. We don't need to hear the fundamental.

If your notes are indistinct pitch then try cutting the bass frequencies and boosting your mids.

High Pass Filter (HPF) is the trendy pedal on TalkBass right now, for a very good reason. I usually set mine at 80hz.

 

[two fingers]

Yep. A good HPF should fix you right up. It's weird. But it works.

 

[MackieBass]

Just checking: is that G# above, or below, bottom E in standard tuning?

Below

 

[MackieBass]

Yep. A good HPF should fix you right up. It's weird. But it works.

Where in the signal chain should this be?

 

[silky smoove]

Im playing bass through my A7X monitors

Playing through studio monitors should be met with tempered expectations. It will never be the same as playing through a bass amp. Different tools for different jobs. Admittedly the A7X is a capable product and can be used for instrument monitoring, but I would never expect incredible results for that purpose.

I really can't hear the fundamental at all.

Why do you want to hear the fundamental? For pitches that low you get a lot more useful response from the harmonics/overtones. If you truly want to hear the fundamentals then you'll need a more capable system than even what most bass amps provide.

I think this is purely the low frequency wavelengths are so long they're just going right past me.

That's not how it works. You can hear a frequency at any point along its wavelength, provided your sound system can reproduce it and your hearing is healthy enough to perceive it.

 

[two fingers]

Where in the signal chain should this be?

What's in your signal chain?

 

[AGCurry]

That Ab (G#) is 26 cycles per second. Most people cannot distinguish pitches well at that frequency, and it's a rare speaker that can reproduce it adequately... which begs the question: Why would you want to play that low? Are you looking for the brown note?

 

[MackieBass]

Why do you want to hear the fundamental?

Fundamental was the wrong word. Just want to be able to distinguish which note it is

What's in your signal chain?

Using the AxeFX 3 - right now its just Input -> Comp -> Amp -> Cab -> Out

That Ab (G#) is 26 cycles per second. Most people cannot distinguish pitches well at that frequency, and it's a rare speaker that can reproduce it adequately... which begs the question: Why would you want to play that low? Are you looking for the brown note?

I play a lot of metal music, what I listen to goes that low on the bass

 

[Mushroo]

Using the AxeFX 3 - right now its just Input -> Comp -> Amp -> Cab -> Out

You're in luck: The AxeFX3 has a built-in high pass filter (HPF) in the Filter Block. Give that a try and see if it helps clean up your muddy tone.

It's a very powerful unit. I recommend you go through your settings and look if maybe your patches are too extreme, such as too much cut in the mid frequencies for example.

Also, you could try turning off the Cab Sim as a troubleshooting step, because those usually have a 'baked in' EQ setting.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

That's not how it works. You can hear a frequency at any point along its wavelength, provided your sound system can reproduce it and your hearing is healthy enough to perceive it.

This should be pinned somewhere... you don't need to be anywhere specific in a sound wave to hear the frequency, it doesn't need to develop as some think, and you can hear a frequency with a huge wavelength in a tiny space (like your ear with earphones ).

The quoted frequency response for your monitors isn't the whole story as it doesn't mean you won't hear anything outside that range, it just means the response tails off. Maybe add a sub if you really want to boost those low frequencies?

 

[micguy]

This should be pinned somewhere... you don't need to be anywhere specific in a sound wave to hear the frequency, it doesn't need to develop as some think, and you can hear a frequency with a huge wavelength in a tiny space (like your ear with earphones ).

Mostly true. In small spaces (headphones, your car) the wavelengths of really low frequencies can be much larger than the dimensions of the space, and you get pressurization everywhere (your ears hear pressure). But in larger spaces, when the room dimensions are comparable to the wavelength of the frequency, you can get standing waves. When that happens, there will be nodes - places where you don't hear certain frequencies.

The thing about low frequencies needing space to "develop" - that's absolutely not true. If you put a speaker up next to a wall, one of the places in the room where the low end will be nice and full is with your ear right up against the wall.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

But in larger spaces, when the room dimensions are comparable to the wavelength of the frequency, you can get standing waves. When that happens, there will be nodes - places where you don't hear certain frequencies.

That is due to destructive interference and the opposite can also occur - i.e. constructive interference - where some frequencies are apparently louder. Destructive interference to the point where a frequency seems to almost disappear isn't that common, but when it happens it's usually going to be noticed most by bassists...

 

[Element Zero]

I play in dropped A all the time and typically boost a bit around 400Hz and 800Hz with an HPF in the ballpark of 60-80Hz and a slight cut at 250Hz and a bit of higher Gain “almost” overdrive for a bit of hair. For me, it helps get the mud out of of my sound and the Mids get more aggressive. I may not be super thrilled with the bass tone by itself, but in the mix it’s just right… for me.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Keep playing. Keep listening. Look after your ears — very important. You'll come good
​

 

[Element Zero]

which begs the question: Why would you want to play that low?

Because…

low tuning + metal = broken necks

 

[micguy]

Destructive interference to the point where a frequency seems to almost disappear isn't that common

In every rectangular room with solid walls, it happens. Where I live, those kinds of rooms are fairly common. It also happens with other shaped rooms, but the math is a little more complex.

 

[silky smoove]

Fundamental was the wrong word. Just want to be able to distinguish which note it is

Got it. I would definitely focus on making the overtones above the fundamental more audible. The fundamental at that low of a pitch will always be less intelligible even if it can be reproduced by the system.

 

[Koshchei]

Below

G#0 is 24.5Hz, which is right at the lower limit for human hearing. Are you going for the brown noise?

Note: As an audience member where some bands have tried to do this, the music is inaudible sludge that hurts to hear. It's not fun, and half the crowd tends to migrate from the mosh pit to the merch tables to drink by the time the band hits song 2.