Off with their Heads! Moonshine Headless Builds incl. Sub Short Scale Travel Basses

[JustForSport]

Posted the following in the thread by 'Toban.Ivan' relating to a folding travel bass:

A flush-fitting hinge at the end of a 17 fret fingerboard, allowing the neck to fold froward eliminates the req'mt of slacking/removing the strings. Needs a capo type device to keep the strings in place when folded. On using metal plates butting each other (one could be part of the hinge) with a couple of adjustment screws set into one of them for 'relief' when in playing position would allow for a repeatable setup. When the neck is folded into playing position, a couple of very strong cam locks (like on heavy-duty band clamps) would lock the back of the neck in place with the metal plates firmly together. Hinge tolerances will have to be good, and the cam locks have to be durable.
Sort of the opposite of the backwards folding style.

This could be used with a 34" scale bass, and meet his req'mts of no more than 55cm o/all.

Edit:
Of course this requires bridge/tuners mounted as close as possible the the end of the body.

The cam locks I referred also have a threaded adjustment rod for cam tension. Sorry, don't have any photos avail at the present.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Back in 2002-2004 I made several electric mandolins; I started out making bridges out of ebony & rosewood resembling the top portion of a standard acoustic mandolin bridge. After that I started modifying Hardtail strat bridges by cutting off one or two saddles & a portion of the bridge base (i made 4,5 & 8 string versions). The finished result looked a lot like the bridge the gentlemen made here.

These are available on ebay...
Gold 4 String Bridge for Cigar Box Guitar Electric Ukulele Mandolin Tenor Bass | eBay

Toban.Ivan's thread is very interesting; Due primarily to my having an attention span like a gnat on crack, I suddenly found myself making drawings of various hinged neck systems...


While I think the idea has merit (and would be very cool as well), it appears that there are several great minds working on that project and I need to get back on track with this one.

EDIT: Did you see this thread?

Single String Headless Tuner Design | TalkBass.com

I have been following this thread; I really like his design and I am looking forward to seeing the finished product. For my project I have decide to go with a modified version of Ned Steinberger's tuning system. I think this style of tuners along with a tune-o-matic style bridge is what I need for my build.





Moonshine

 

[xaxxat]

This guy has some interesting, and expensive, bridges based on the Strat hardtail bridge.

Electric Mandolin Bridges

 

[moonshinegtrs]

I always admired Alembics bridges; brass, hand crafted & well designed:

Stars Guitars, out of San Francisco in the late seventies, made some somewhat similar designed bridges as well. This was during the whole "Brass + weight = sustain" era. Both had cool designs but Alembic's bridges were just classy. They still are.

I've thought about building something along the lines of what Alembic builds. I've done wood working for over 35 years but I have little experience with metal working; I've been blessed to have friends who are machinists who have helped me when I needed something made.

Still, a bridge of this design shouldn't be a huge endeavour; A hacksaw, a drill, some files and a tap & die set should do it which is a good thing... that's about the extent of my metal work tool collection.

The bridges that I have been admiring are made of brass, but for my prototype, aluminum will do; it is readily available and inexpensive. I will be ordering brass bar & rod stock for the actual bridges.

I thought I could rum down to Lowes and pick up some aluminum U-channel but all that I could find locally was 1/16" thick. I feel that it would be too thin, 1/8" is what I am wanting. They did have 1/8" aluminum angle a bought a four foot length that was 3/4" wide. I also purchased some 3/16" aluminum tubing & rod stock. I used stainless steel for all of the nuts, screws & washers. I also got four stainless locking nuts all of which are sized 6-32.

My first design was to double the thickness of the base of the bridge:



The more I looked at it I decided that this was unnecessary so I started again.

I then cut the wall down to 3/8" and cut another piece the same height.

Next I cut out and filed a space so the second wall could be attached:

I decided that I wanted supports between the saddles so I drilled five holes through both walls and threaded one side. using the aluminum tubing and the 6-32 screws I attached the second wall to the base (i will change the screws out to the correct 3/4" length)... Also the brass that I ordered came in.

I need to cut out and install the saddles and their adjustment screws. Then it will be time to build the tuners.



Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

This guy has some interesting, and expensive, bridges based on the Strat hardtail bridge.

Electric Mandolin Bridges

Those are very cool. judging from the quality of his work, I think his prices are pretty fair.

Thanks for showing those to me, I've never seen his website before.



Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

I completed the bridge yesterday:

I'm pleased with the results though I think at some point I will make new saddles; I really need to work on my tapping/threading skills. I did them by hand and keeping the tap lined up straight was a major pain in the buttocks (next time I will use my drill press).

It is amazingly light; it weighs almost nothing. It will be interesting to see how it sounds.

Here it is on a template; with standard guitar tuners and with a Steinberger tuning set up:

I hope to be cutting out bodies today.

EDIT: Okay, the saddles are bugging the crap out of me so I will be making new ones. The ones that are installed will make do during the construction process... or I might just say screw it and build another one.

But one thing I do know is I am definitely moving on with the build. I found a nice piece of 6/4 cypress, medium weight and just wide enough to do one piece bodies...


Moonshine

 

[daveman50]

Very nice! How about a hex socket rather than a Phillips head for the saddle adjusters? Might make sense given the location of the tuners.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Very nice! How about a hex socket rather than a Phillips head for the saddle adjusters? Might make sense given the location of the tuners.

Thanks Daveman, that's an excellent idea. I'm using stainless screws, I will see if I can find SS hex sockets.

Another possibility is button head screws with a hex socket.

The current saddle adjustment screws are temporary. the actual screws will be slightly shorter versions. I will also put locking nuts on the ends.



Moonshine

 

[Jon Clegg]

I'll second that suggestion; I did that substitution on a strat bridge and have never looked back.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

I completed the first one of these last night. I have a ton of build pics but photobucket seems to be down...

I'm very pleased with how it came out.

Pics coming soon.



Moonshine

 

[wraub]

Tease.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Tease.

That I am

Here it is:

It has had a few different bridges since this pic was taken;

Xaxxat; You were right all along... After going through several bridge designs. I admitted defeat and went with the bridge you suggested. It is everything I need plus very cost effective (the whole idea behind this was to come up with a design that would be inexpensive to produce).

I'm building six of them at this time.

I will post build pics soon. Hopefully soon means a few days as opposed to a couple months.



Moonshine

 

[mbelue]

Really cool @moonshinegtrs .

Dying to see more.

 

[2groggy]

Seeing as the thread still has a pulse...

@moonshinegtrs , I built something similar (headless, 25.5" scale bass) and want to compare notes on choice of strings. My build thread is here 2groggy's Short Scale Travel Bass

Because of the sub-short scale, I strung it up with the B,E,A & D strings from a 5 string set and then tuned to E standard. The result seemed too tight and too difficult to get leverage on the tuners. I then loosened the tuning to DGFC and use a capo on the 2nd fret when for standard tuning. There still seems to be too much tension and torque required at the tuners.

What scale length is your bass, and string gauges work best for it?

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Really cool @moonshinegtrs .

Dying to see more.

Thanks mbelue. more to come...

Seeing as the thread still has a pulse...

@moonshinegtrs , I built something similar (headless, 25.5" scale bass) and want to compare notes on choice of strings. My build thread is here 2groggy's Short Scale Travel Bass

Because of the sub-short scale, I strung it up with the B,E,A & D strings from a 5 string set and then tuned to E standard. The result seemed too tight and too difficult to get leverage on the tuners. I then loosened the tuning to DGFC and use a capo on the 2nd fret when for standard tuning. There still seems to be too much tension and torque required at the tuners.

What scale length is your bass, and string gauges work best for it?

When it comes to posting on my own projects I'm like a gnat on crack, if there is such a thing as A.D.D. I'm the freakin' poster child (or as my Dad used to say "Quit being a dumbass & pay attention!")...

I have a few of these under my belt now, I've learned a little more every time one was built. I am very happy with the way they have turned out but I am trying to find a better pre/headphone amp. I have tried a couple of different versions of this thing, but it still could be way batter. If I had my choice of headphone amps I would definitely go with the Cafe Walter unit. From all I have read it is exactly what I am looking for. I would love to work out a deal with Cafe Walter; I just sent him an email today inquiring about the possibility of such a thing happening, I imagine that he is busy enough building his newest version, but hey... I can dream (from what little contact we've had, he seems to be a pretty cool guy). I can't wait to get one of his newer versions when they become available. It looks like I will have to make my own version of the one I am currently using, until then I will have to make do with what I have.

To answer your questions 2groggy, I am using necks with a 25 1/2" scale and as for string gauges, I am using a D'Addario set; EXL160. Gauges are: .050/.070/.085/.105. I'm tuning to EADG and have had no problem with floppiness; does it feel just like your favorite bass? Obviously no, but in my opinion the tension feels normal to me or at least to a point that I haven't noticed it being an issue, nor have I had anyone else mention it. I hope this helps.

I have parts to build three more from the first batch. I am finishing up some end of the year builds then I will get back on these. The ones I am building now have a few improvements over the prototype. I've been looking into audio/video recording and I hope to start posting clips in the near future and I'll post one of the new basses...



Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Seeing as the thread still has a pulse...

@moonshinegtrs , I built something similar (headless, 25.5" scale bass) and want to compare notes on choice of strings. My build thread is here 2groggy's Short Scale Travel Bass/QUOTE]


I checked out you build thread... It's a very cool looking bass!




Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Back from the dead!

It's definitely been awhile... Lots has gone on with the project, it's been off and on and I've made a lot of changes.

This is how the green bass looks today; I went with another bridge but other than that it is the same as when you last saw it. Also pictured is my Alvarez 27 5/8" scale ABG.

I have spent a lot of time with this bass, I have used it for rehearsing and it has flown with me a couple of times (I have a small gigbag, it fit in my suitcase. I also used a Blackstar Bass Fly Rig). I have a set of D'Addario XL's on it, I think the E is a .105. I like the string tension and the feel. As a travel bass it has performed almost flawlessly with the biggest issue coming from the lack of quality of the headphone amp. The search for a better unit sidelined the project for almost a year.

Last fall I started talking with the maker of Earwig guitar headphone amps; in my opinion his product is on par with the Cafe Walter HA-1 (The Ha-1 has more options and is definitely built sturdier). We are still working on a design but what we have tested so far is on the right track.

Along with the electronics, I have also revamped the overall design. I wanted to give the instrument more of a boutique look using some of the design elements that I have used in other builds, I also wanted the bass to be smaller width-wise.

These ideas morphed into the 3rd prototype; The SlimBass

I really like the way this turned out, midway into the build I decided to add a 1/2" to the width on the treble side of the design. This will make the bass more balanced cosmetically and allow more room for the electronics in the lower control cavity. Everything else came out as expected; the headphone amp is now located on the bass side upper bout (by the fretboard). This presented it's own set of problems with the wiring, there's a lot of wires going back and forth throughout the body. My answer to this is to make the production model semi hollow.

The two pickups allowed for more tonal variation but I have decide to go with one bass pickup (a double jazz humbucker will be mounted diagonally) on the next few models. The controls on this prototype are (passive) volume and tone with a 3-way mini switch for pickup selection. The only change with the production bass will be the switch which will be series/parallel/single coil.

This is the (roughed out) template for the updated body shape.

I am using some beautiful mahogany for the body, wide enough to be one piece bodies. As a bonus, upon planing the board I purchased I found some really nice light figure.. Score!

Here's the first three blanks (I'll get a better pic of the wood grain).

I'm using flame maple for the tops, here's one set.

Here is the set of templates for the body; now that these are finished I'm ready to start on the next three...

I promise it won't take a year for me to post again.


Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Started working on the body blanks today...

Ran them through the thickness sander first:

I tried to get a shot of the light figuring, not much luck...

Next I routed out the control and battery cavities...

This is the next step; hollowing out the remainder of the body.

here are a couple of the tops that I will be using. Most likely the third body will have a maple top too but I have some really nice redwood with some fat flamey curls... Maybe for the next run.



Moonshine

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Nice! I like the color of the test bodies. The newest design can sure save on body wood.

The mahogany looks good even if we can't see the figure.

Always enjoy a moonshine build.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Continued routing today...

This template is for removing the remaining material from inside of the body.

I learned to do this from Greg Curbow (RIP); I replaced the base plate of my router with a 12"x 12" sheet of Plexiglas. It allows me to route larger areas.

Now that these are done time to glue up the tops

I resawed a third maple top, ran all three sets through the thickness sander then joined/sanded them. I recently purchase a stackable clamp system and this was my first time using it (this is the 24" wide set, I also have two sets of 36" clamps, one of which is up for sale...). It Rocks!

Tomorrow the tops will be out of the clamps and thickness sanded to 1/4". Hope to have the bodies/tops glued up tomorrow.


Moonshine