Luthiers/Ingeneers/Creatives ! I need help !

[ctmullins]

In the interest of the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid), could a standard bolt-on neck be used, except instead of using 4 screws, use three locator pins or dowels for accurate location and one thumb screw or wingnut? It would eliminate the need to bring a screwdriver through airport security, and use the least amount of custom fabricated parts. One should probably use metal pins and metal inserts to delay the inevitable wear and tear on the mating surfaces.

Hmmm, I've got a month to think this over until the straight pull tuners are ready. I've already got a neck and full set of electronics in my secret stash, (formerly secret, that is).

Hey everybody, 2groggy has a secret stash!! SECRET STASH! SECRET STASH!! COME AND GET IT!!!



Ahem.



Subbed.

 

[JiJ]

Just seen this on facebook, looks like what you're on about
Link Removed

 

[Toban.Ivan]

Look's like the Snap Dragon Folder Guitars system.
Too bad it's a short scale..

 

[michaelwayneharwood]

Just landed back in Italy. Love the sunny warm Italy..

This night I will prepare the rotating version sketch

I think a side rotating design similar to the Snap Dragon would be the easiest to build, and I believe it to be workable. With an assumption of a 34" scale length, and the pivot point being at the "heel", you are looking at a folded size of about 24" to 26". This is a rough guess and I have not mocked it up, so take the estimate with a grain of salt.

I agree that a metal pin used as a center pin would be the way to go, and machine threaded inserts would make the folding and unfolding fairly easy. Here are a few things I would do if I were designing this for myself:

1. Go with the shortest scale length I was comfortable playing in. For me this is easy as I like a 30" scale.
2. Make it headless to keep the neck length as short as possible, and have the headless tuners at the body side of things.
3. Try to aim for having the pivot point to be in the exact middle of the bass length, if possible.
4. Use an enclosed string guide on the top of the neck that keeps string spacing intact, and a zero fret.
5. Build the headphone amp into the bass so that it's fully self contained
6. Use a piezo transducer in a wooden bridge that is properly intonated for a specific gauge and type of strings to keep things simple and clean
7. Keep the truss rod adjustment at the top of the neck.

Whatever you decide to do I am super stoked that you are sharing this. Are you planning on building this yourself? If so pleeeeeeeeease post a build thread.

 

[diegom]

Lots of interesting ideas here: collapsible guitar - Google Search

This is the one find more "switchblade-like" Patent US5390578 - Guitar with rotating - collapsible neck portion - Google Patents

 

[JoeWPgh]

Have you looked into the Traveler bass? It's a headless 32" scale that fit's into an airline's overhead, without any dis-assembly.

 

[Toban.Ivan]

1. Go with the shortest scale length I was comfortable playing in. For me this is easy as I like a 30" scale.
2. Make it headless to keep the neck length as short as possible, and have the headless tuners at the body side of things.
3. Try to aim for having the pivot point to be in the exact middle of the bass length, if possible.
4. Use an enclosed string guide on the top of the neck that keeps string spacing intact, and a zero fret.
5. Build the headphone amp into the bass so that it's fully self contained
6. Use a piezo transducer in a wooden bridge that is properly intonated for a specific gauge and type of strings to keep things simple and clean
7. Keep the truss rod adjustment at the top of the neck.

My ideal specs:
1) 34";
2) just like you;
3) pivot point in line between the 16 and 17 frets (Eventually even with a shorter true fingerboard, let's say a shorter true fb and a longer than reasonable ramp), fretless;
4) Hipshot headpiece, brass nut;
5) just like you, something like this Invalid Link Removed
6) MM pickup at the 30,5" sweet spot, thinking at a Delano Quad Coil;
7) just like you;
8) need it to fit in a 55x40x30 cm bag.

Whatever you decide to do I am super stoked that you are sharing this. Are you planning on building this yourself? If so pleeeeeeeeease post a build thread.

It's very very hard for me thinking about a real build, I don't have the tools, I don't have the experience and I don't have the time to complete it before my 3yo son high school graduation..

Let's say that I'm sharing this hoping to have enough tips and advices to give a professional luthier a very well done plan/project.

We will see in the future, for the moment I'll think about the plan.

 

[Toban.Ivan]

Have you looked into the Traveler bass? It's a headless 32" scale that fit's into an airline's overhead, without any dis-assembly.

Of corse yes and I would really like to try one of them.

2 problems however, 34" not available, fretless not available, baggage dimension rules and restrictions of the low cost flying company ( like Ryanair) I don't want to discuss..

 

[Toban.Ivan]

Ok here we are.

Rotation version #1

Please be forgiving with my sketches.. this one at least is on scale (5mm = 1").

These are rough measures (3" after the bridge, 1" over the nut etc..) but let's try to concentrate the attention over the pivoting system.

The pivot center is deliberately misaligned, the idea is to let the tension of the strings (when in tune) concentrate in the flat parts of the rotating neck and the body. Not on the pivoting "device".

One last thing. You'll immediately catch that the proper fingerboard, the part that will have a working trussrod, will stop in-between the 16th and the 17th fret. This is a limit of the scale lenght been 34" and the dimensions limits with the "thing" folded. I already underlined how I spend most of my playing time around the firsts 8 frets so I say amen.
Who knows however. Wanting it to be fretless it may work just fine...

But stop talking... here the sketch.

Looking for your opinions.

Ivan

 

[Toban.Ivan]

PS .. you can see the start of the lower body part design. Just simple lines..

 

[Meyatch]

Here's 2 ideas, I don't know if they are feasible or not.

A neck that telescopes out of the body, with some spring loaded pins that would hold it in place. Like a light truss. (and spring load the neck so you just push a button and you have a bass. and also paint it like a lightsaber!)

a neck that attaches to the body with something similar to those screws(?) like they use in ikea furniture.

the 2 things that there are 12x of. You could get a nicer version of them machined, with wing nuts so you don't need any tools to put it together. They twist in with a half turn, and exert some amount of force clamping them together.

 

[Toban.Ivan]

Thank you Meyatch.
These may be super-fast methods but I pretty sure they wouldn't keep a decent setup in place consistenly

 

[michaelwayneharwood]

Nice! I think the plan you have is shaping up very well! The only questions pending, at leastt for me, is the method you wish to use in securing the neck when folded out. Machine screws with neck inserts would be, at least in my mind, the best path to avoid stripping wood out in the neck. This would require some manual effort on each fold.

 

[Hopkins]

Nice! I think the plan you have is shaping up very well! The only questions pending, at leastt for me, is the method you wish to use in securing the neck when folded out. Machine screws with neck inserts would be, at least in my mind, the best path to avoid stripping wood out in the neck. This would require some manual effort on each fold.

I think using string tension to hold the neck in place would be the best option for a quick break down, no tools required. This would however require a device to totally slack the strings for break down. Like an extreme version of a Hipshot Detuner.

 

[josiah goldfish]

If you put a hinge on the back in the neck pocket area so it could fold onto the back that might work, with a ball end headpiece and double ball strings or a clamping tuner on the body such as michealwaynehardwood's you could detune and slip the string off the head and then fold it and stow it. The string tension should keep the neck tight against the body in the playing position.

When I was 14 I made an acoustic guitar with a hinge at the heel of the neck. One slackened the strings off on the tuners, unhooked them from the tailpiece and then the neck folded against the back. The string tension was the only thing holding the guitar together with that design

 

[josiah goldfish]

 

[wraub]

How did it sound/play?

 

[JustForSport]

A flush-fitting hinge at the end of a 17 fret fingerboard, allowing the neck to fold froward eliminates the req'mt of slacking/removing the strings. Needs a capo type device to keep the strings in place when folded. On using metal plates butting each other (one could be part of the hinge) with a couple of adjustment screws set into one of them for 'relief' when in playing position would allow for a repeatable setup. When the neck is folded into playing position, a couple of very strong cam locks (like on heavy-duty band clamps) would lock the back of the neck in place with the metal plates firmly together. Hinge tolerances will have to be good, and the cam locks have to be durable.
Sort of the opposite of the backwards folding style.

 

[Toban.Ivan]

I don't know if I'm understanding it right but I don't see problems.

When it will be "open", having the pivoting point out of the center line of the neck, the 2 parts will be pushed in contact by the strings tension.

When folded I'm thinking about a velcro belt that will surround body and neck. Blocking them in place.

Regarding the strings, when folded, I'm considering a sort of "socket". We will talk about this later.

Regarding a device that will help de-tuning all the strings in the same moment I'm thinking at "something" at the headpiece. I'll post a sketch.

NeXT part, 1/1 draws. Just before a proper CAD file.

 

[josiah goldfish]

How did it sound/play?

Pretty naff, I was 14/15 The hinge had nothing to do with that though, just my complete lack of lutherie knowledge

EDIT: 'naff' is an English slang that means 'crap'