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Luthiers/Ingeneers/Creatives ! I need help !

Toban.Ivan

Toban.Ivan

Sep 2, 2010
139
37
#1
Hi everybody, just let me warn you. In the following post I'll try to e playing you a little Idea I had and my needs of know how regarding building strange and weird things that has to looks like a Bass.. sort off....

First of all a little explanation that will let you understand on what my whole idea is base on.
I'am a Commercial Agent. I have my flights every monday and every friday of any given week and I spend my evenings in hotels reading, listening music, watching TV in all the Europeans languages pretending to not thinking at my basses waiting at home in Italy.
I NEED a travel bass. Drammatically.

I had a chance to try various short scale/sub scale/weird (to me) ukuleles re-interpretetions etc but I almost alwais missed the good old 34"/rw/fretless combo.

I am super fascinated by basses like the Miziomix Airborne and the like but I can't think to my self putting a beauty like this on Ryanair plane's hatboxes...

AND..... I can't see my selfscrewing in and out the neck every evening.

So i thought.. What about a switchbass? Yeah.. just like a switchblade?

I can't help you with draws or scetches from where I am now (I will asap) but I hope you'll can see what I mean..

Can the engineers between you imagine a rotating loking connection piece for body/neck? Obviously in conjuction with headless system ( with locking saddles and strings clamps)?

In my idea that might certainly be hard to understand without draws, just loosening the strings the neck would be free to rotate on a fixed support on the body reducing the dimensions of the instrument drammatically. So much that it could be fitted easily in a fitness bag or something like this..

Well.. waiting for me posting some draws just fell free to ignore but who knows.. maybe the crazyest between you may share some fool idea with me ;)

Ivan
 
#2
Hmm. I can imagine that a "Stiletto Bass" would be easier to engineer than a "Switchbass." (ie One where the neck is attached to a movable base which can be unlocked, shifted from the body top to behind, and then slid back into the body, then, conversely, slid out, shifted up and then locked into place.)
 
#3
Toban.Ivan said:
Hi everybody, just let me warn you. In the following post I'll try to e playing you a little Idea I had and my needs of know how regarding building strange and weird things that has to looks like a Bass.. sort off....

First of all a little explanation that will let you understand on what my whole idea is base on.
I'am a Commercial Agent. I have my flights every monday and every friday of any given week and I spend my evenings in hotels reading, listening music, watching TV in all the Europeans languages pretending to not thinking at my basses waiting at home in Italy.
I NEED a travel bass. Drammatically.

I had a chance to try various short scale/sub scale/weird (to me) ukuleles re-interpretetions etc but I almost alwais missed the good old 34"/rw/fretless combo.

I am super fascinated by basses like the Miziomix Airborne and the like but I can't think to my self putting a beauty like this on Ryanair plane's hatboxes...

AND..... I can't see my selfscrewing in and out the neck every evening.

So i thought.. What about a switchbass? Yeah.. just like a switchblade?

I can't help you with draws or scetches from where I am now (I will asap) but I hope you'll can see what I mean..

Can the engineers between you imagine a rotating loking connection piece for body/neck? Obviously in conjuction with headless system ( with locking saddles and strings clamps)?

In my idea that might certainly be hard to understand without draws, just loosening the strings the neck would be free to rotate on a fixed support on the body reducing the dimensions of the instrument drammatically. So much that it could be fitted easily in a fitness bag or something like this..

Well.. waiting for me posting some draws just fell free to ignore but who knows.. maybe the crazyest between you may share some fool idea with me ;)

Ivan
Click to expand...
If you put a hinge on the back in the neck pocket area so it could fold onto the back that might work, with a ball end headpiece and double ball strings or a clamping tuner on the body such as michealwaynehardwood's you could detune and slip the string off the head and then fold it and stow it. The string tension should keep the neck tight against the body in the playing position.
 
Last edited:
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#7
I've seen and played a Snapdragon bass in person.
The design is unusual but comfortable and well balanced.
It's a short scale that plays nicely, of course you need to retune after every folding/unfolding.
It sounds like a bass, not a great bass but honest tone.
The tuners they use are crap. Too weak for a bass. They should use Sperzel.
 
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#9
Thank you all for the replies, I wasn't expecting so much interest honestly.

CosmoReverb said:
Hmm. I can imagine that a "Stiletto Bass" would be easier to engineer than a "Switchbass." (ie One where the neck is attached to a movable base which can be unlocked, shifted from the body top to behind, and then slid back into the body, then, conversely, slid out, shifted up and then locked into place.)
Click to expand...

That's one idea I explored, at least in paper but I found it to be more complicated than the rotating concept..

Will_White said:
If you put a hinge on the back in the neck pocket area so it could fold onto the back that might work, with a ball end headpiece and double ball strings or a clamping tuner on the body such as michealwaynehardwood's you could detune and slip the string off the head and then fold it and stow it. The string tension should keep the neck tight against the body in the playing position.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I do think too that the string tension would be enough for mechanically keep in place the neck but I doubt this granting a reasonable setup consistency.

michaelwayneharwood said:
Outside the box - sign me up! So sub'd.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much! I just adore your builds and your "let's try a new way" design concepts.

michaelwayneharwood said:
The system that the Snap Dragon folding guitar uses seems to fit the bill for what you are looking to do:

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

That's something closing to what I'm looking for but not quote enough.. It will all be clear when I'll post some draw.

Will_White said:
You could also look into a glueless dovetail joint.
Click to expand...

Don't know. A removable dovetail join could certainly work but will a pain considering even the little humidity changes and consequent wood reactions.

Jazz Ad said:
I've seen and played a Snapdragon bass in person.
The design is unusual but comfortable and well balanced.
It's a short scale that plays nicely, of course you need to retune after every folding/unfolding.
It sounds like a bass, not a great bass but honest tone.
The tuners they use are crap. Too weak for a bass. They should use Sperzel.
Click to expand...

Good to know, thank you very much.

yoshi said:
Check out the Wing Bass! I saw it on here recently and was rather mesmerised. I actually think I will build something similar for my next build.

The Wing Bass Now Available

Folding/collapsable bass sounds like a pain in the arse having to retune and pack away and deal with floppy strings left right and center!
Click to expand...

I DO really dig it like you but I'm unconfortable considering playing only in the upper register. What I mean is that this could be a great entertaining tool but that's not at all what my fingers are used to. I'm not a "solo" player and the firsts 7/8 positions are what I'm familiar with.

This evening I'll be back on my way home and I hope I'll find the time for some well done draws. No CAD like things for sure (eventually in the future with the assistance in my wife-architect) but something a little less cloudy that spared ideas....

But.. just to add a little more pepper..

What about a 2/3 parts neck? Is a trussrod so much needed? ;)
 
#10
Please.. Excuse me for the very professionals "on-a-moving-taxi" sketch..

Collapsing version #1

No body design yet, don't consider the headstock shape (it's just a way to keep proportions), just the basic idea of the collapsing neck.
This way we'll may have a +/- 20" long thing while closed.

Many things to take in consideration. The thickness of the body part close the join (this have to allow a completly 180• rotation of the rest of the neck), a shorter than guitar-size trussrod, the join construction by her self (that shouldn't allow any back bow AND any contact between the 2 parts of the fingerboard.

20" as indicative mid line for final dimensions and also because in-between the 15/16 or the 16/17 frets.

I would really love it to be fretless but I don't think is doable with a collapsing system.

Next the Rotating version.
 

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#11
Toban.Ivan said:
Please.. Excuse me for the very professionals "on-a-moving-taxi" sketch..

Collapsing version #1

No body design yet, don't consider the headstock shape (it's just a way to keep proportions), just the basic idea of the collapsing neck.
This way we'll may have a +/- 20" long thing while closed.

Many things to take in consideration. The thickness of the body part close the join (this have to allow a completly 180• rotation of the rest of the neck), a shorter than guitar-size trussrod, the join construction by her self (that shouldn't allow any back bow AND any contact between the 2 parts of the fingerboard.

20" as indicative mid line for final dimensions and also because in-between the 15/16 or the 16/17 frets.

I would really love it to be fretless but I don't think is doable with a collapsing system.

Next the Rotating version.
Click to expand...
A couple of thoughts (take them with a grain of salt):

1. I love the thought process, and the drawing was well done.
2. Folding the neck backwards, like your drawing depicts, would require either detaching the strings upon each fold, or building a detachable string retention system. The drawing appears to imply a string through body design.
3. This reminds me of the Invalid Link Removed travel guitars.
 
#12
Mm mm I think that loosening the strings (quite a bit I admit) and pulling them aside the neck will freely move without dismantling the while bass.

Anyway, I'm waiting the flight and I have a bit of time, I'm more and more considering this solution a pain in the arse..

Extremely more confident in the rotating option
 
#13
Toban.Ivan said:
Mm mm I think that loosening the strings (quite a bit I admit) and pulling them aside the neck will freely move without dismantling the while bass.

Anyway, I'm waiting the flight and I have a bit of time, I'm more and more considering this solution a pain in the arse..

Extremely more confident in the rotating option
Click to expand...
To me it's all about trying to see the forest rather than the trees, unless there are VERY special trees that require direct attention. ;)

Here's what I hear are the desired specs:

1. A travel bass that can be fit in a gym bag to make flying easier
2. Quick setup time, and minimal fuss and bother from unpacking to playing
3. A long scale instrument (34" or close)
4. Fretless, if possible

Close?

Questions:

1. If there was an available option that did not need to be built custom is that something you would consider?
2. Does the instrument need to sound great, or is there a "good enough" compromise that you are willing to settle with?
 
#15
michaelwayneharwood said:
Thanks so much! That's very kind of you to say.
Click to expand...

Thank you too taking your time to not only follow this crazy idea but also adding useful tips and sharing your very welcomed ideas and opinions.

To answer your questions:

1) of corse yes! I searched the market for similar solutions that could fit with my needs but i've been pretty unlucky, especially regarding the 34" scale (i can consider a 33 but not less!);
2) no, it doesn't have to sound like a Fodera of corse. I will exclusively play it with one headphones amplifier and some basetracks/song so not pretending anything spectacular. Just properly sounding.
 
#17
In the interest of the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid), could a standard bolt-on neck be used, except instead of using 4 screws, use three locator pins or dowels for accurate location and one thumb screw or wingnut? It would eliminate the need to bring a screwdriver through airport security, and use the least amount of custom fabricated parts. One should probably use metal pins and metal inserts to delay the inevitable wear and tear on the mating surfaces.

Hmmm, I've got a month to think this over until the straight pull tuners are ready. I've already got a neck and full set of electronics in my secret stash, (formerly secret, that is).
 
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#18
That's one simple and yet very probable well working solution. Keep me informed in how it does work for you please.
My biggest concern is the setup.
I can't believe the "pins" system to be really consistent.
Don't know, maybe is just me..
 
#19
Of corse. This could be the solution for the dovetail limits but again, just as said others replies, I'm stucked with the need of a standard setup available.

Just in example.. What If you'll want tio shim the neck?
 

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