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Luthiers/Ingeneers/Creatives ! I need help !

#41
josiah goldfish said:
Pretty naff, I was 14/15 :D The hinge had nothing to do with that though, just my complete lack of lutherie knowledge

EDIT: 'naff' is an English slang that means 'crap'
Click to expand...

Ok. Might be worth a re-do with your obviously improved skills. :)

FTR, I actually knew what "naff" meant, from years of reading British novelists and issues of Kerrang.

I'm not some wally... :D
 
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#43
Ideas continues to grow freely!!!

Here's another sketch (sorry for the approximation of this one... lol).

A couple of things.

One easy 2-pieces metallic device for the rotation (hope you will see what I mean in this stupid sketch) and the beginning of an idea for a tilting tuning piece, for a fast and easy loosening of the strings tensions before folding.

I would like to know your opinions as usual.

Ivan
 

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#47
In principle the rotation point should work okay, but I think you will also need something to clamp the two halves tightly together when the guitar is on the playing position. If you don't you could, over time, run into misalignment of the neck due to slack and wear, the wear is very dependent on the used materials. The clamping will probably also improve the tone.
 
#49
The simplest way to go would probably be two or three allen bolts, all you need is an allen key, if you lock the hinge with M5 bolts you can use the same 4 millimeter key that you use to adjust the neck.

But now after thinking it over a bit more, I would probably go for a traditional bolt on neck style construction, but instead of the standard screws would use four M5 allen bolts and put the right size threaded bushings in the neck, or a metal neckplate attached to the neck with some threaded holes for these bolts.
Loosen the tuners 4 to 6 turns and the string tension on the neck is gone, now it's easy to loosen and fasten these bolts.

Why make a difficult construction with all kind of inherent engineering problems when all you need is a simple 4 millimeter allen key (that can somehow be attached to the body in a simple way and which you, as an added bonus, can also use for neck adjustment).
 
#50
Thank you very much. Need more thinking so.. and a magnetised tools compartment.

It is true however that screwing 3 or 4 screws each time don't make a huge difference and so (even If the 34" wanted scale still cause problems) the whole rotation design sound just as a complication.

I wouldn't abort it yet but I will very probably try too a simple unscrew here and screw there setup. Still in 34" with all the problems to be taken in consideration.
 
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#51
A bit stucked.

Trying to figure out a system that could be considered simple and not necessarily a huge stainless steel plate with a dozen screws..

Looking more carefully at the Snap Dragon's system and more precisely at some of the videos they linked in their site (unfortunately only Guitars videos) it's pretty clear that the neck, when pushed in the "play" position is attracted by some kind of force, don't know if by a huge magnet or some kind of spring..
Similarly, when pulled to be folded, it looks like a bit of force is required. Nothing huge but still something that let me think of magnets...

Does anyone of you think that a proper (to read "huge") use of magnets may give enough strenght to the body/neck join while in "play" position? Enough strenght to assure a good neck stability?

I'm guessing.. Is this kind of force that keeps in tune the Snap Dragon Guitars even when folded/opened etc?

Ivan
 
#52
I remember from reading through some Rickenbacker forums that a bass with 45-105 gauge strings has approximately 150 pounds of tension. You may quickly encounter issues with this rate of tension, as most joints of a suitable size for your project would fail under 150lbs of force. A solution to this could be in using the strings to keep the joint in place, but then you run into tuning stability issues.

As someone who has done quite a bit of travelling with basses around Australia, my advice would be to purchase a medium scale bolt on with high tension strings (50-110) and perfect the art of assembling and setting up instruments. My suitcase is a large enough size that a full scale bass neck fits in, and I travel with an allen key set and a small electronic screwdriver. My jazz bass can have the neck screwed on and tuned up in 10-15 minutes. If you are travelling to places with large variations in temperature and humidity, then you will need a little more time in which to adjust the truss.

If an instrument is to be screwed and unscrewed multiple times in a week, then I highly recommend installing neck bolts, that way you do not strip out the wood.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but it is the most effective method that I can see.

Best of luck
 
#53
Would look at those fasteners that only require a quarter turn to pull it tight together, as long as is the same neck going onto the same body the setup should remain the same. I don't see anything that folds in the middle of the being either A sturdy enough, or B small enough, I would do a long body 17th fret maybe, and a bolt on neck with the quarter turn fasteners or a metal dovetail with two set screws on the heel to snug it up, both would be strong and be able to keep a consistent setup.
 
#54
Splods said:
I remember from reading through some Rickenbacker forums that a bass with 45-105 gauge strings has approximately 150 pounds of tension. You may quickly encounter issues with this rate of tension, as most joints of a suitable size for your project would fail under 150lbs of force. A solution to this could be in using the strings to keep the joint in place, but then you run into tuning stability issues.

As someone who has done quite a bit of travelling with basses around Australia, my advice would be to purchase a medium scale bolt on with high tension strings (50-110) and perfect the art of assembling and setting up instruments. My suitcase is a large enough size that a full scale bass neck fits in, and I travel with an allen key set and a small electronic screwdriver. My jazz bass can have the neck screwed on and tuned up in 10-15 minutes. If you are travelling to places with large variations in temperature and humidity, then you will need a little more time in which to adjust the truss.

If an instrument is to be screwed and unscrewed multiple times in a week, then I highly recommend installing neck bolts, that way you do not strip out the wood.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but it is the most effective method that I can see.

Best of luck
Click to expand...

Thank you Splods, this is exactly the kind of in-sight experiences needed in these cases. I'm more and more back on my ideas pointing vs a more traditional screw-in & screw-out setup. With some "twist".

Will_White said:
Would look at those fasteners that only require a quarter turn to pull it tight together, as long as is the same neck going onto the same body the setup should remain the same. I don't see anything that folds in the middle of the being either A sturdy enough, or B small enough, I would do a long body 17th fret maybe, and a bolt on neck with the quarter turn fasteners or a metal dovetail with two set screws on the heel to snug it up, both would be strong and be able to keep a consistent setup.
Click to expand...

Thank you Will_White, your contribution is spot-on.

The design of an extended body (to a mid-line closing the 20") with a SS plate back mounted and a shorter than normal neck to be fixed with a sort of Ikea like fasseners is perhaps the best/simple/consistent solution.
I hope I'll be able to source some kind of fastener however that will claim a very good quality level.

Need some searching.
 
#55
Another option would be a slide in style which then locks in place with a single bolt, similar to bolt on acoustics. Deals with both the tension/tuning stability issues, and enables you to have a full scale neck with all 22 frets.


body.png




guitarneckheels_zpsd4297dca.jpg
 
#56
Toban.Ivan said:
Thank you very much Blablas.
May I, If you don't mind, ask you how those Calmps could/should be done?

I'm thinking about a "securing" metal pin but the tool-less rule is still the most important.
Click to expand...

What about a cam-based device like the quick release (QR) skewer from a bike wheel? The tight end could be countersunk into the 'heel' of the neck with the skewer going through and locking against a washer of some type sunk into the upper edge of the body above the heel. In the single cutaway design you could use two flat slabs of metal (aluminium - 4" x 0.5", say) for the mating surfaces - one on the top edge of the neck/fingerboard and the other at the top of the neck pocket. They come together when the hinge is closed, with the skewer of the QR going through two holes close to the top fret position.
 
#57
Splods said:
Another option would be a slide in style which then locks in place with a single bolt, similar to bolt on acoustics. Deals with both the tension/tuning stability issues, and enables you to have a full scale neck with all 22 frets.


View attachment 685486



guitarneckheels_zpsd4297dca.jpg
Click to expand...
That's essentially what I'm talking about when I say a metal dovetail with set screws, I don't think he'll be able to fit a full length full scale neck in his luggage.
 
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