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Double Bass Hearing myself in the section

F

Fletcher Lanning

May 31, 2007
436
7
Roseburg, Oregon, US
#1
I've been playing with a small community orchestra for a little over a year now (I started DB about that time) and have been the only DB player during that time. We occasionally had a ringer come in to play a big solo or sit in with me when we played the messiah but it was never an issue because they were professionals and I was the one trying to keep up with THEM.

We have a new bass player in the orchestra and the conductor is having him sit second. I am playing an old Plywood bass that sounds great for what it is, but he is playing a fully carved instrument that is definitely louder than mine. I've been having trouble because I thought I wasn't playing in tune with the orchestra but realized last night that it was the other player who was out of tune when I had to sit out on a particular section. I'm just having trouble hearing myself over him at times.

Is this a common problem for bass players or do any of you have tips on was to hear yourself better when playing?
 
#2
Since you are sitting first, have you asked the other guy to blend his sound with yours? Being in a section means producing one bass sound for the orchestra. Currently, I'm having to deal with a very very green stand partner who almost never plays in tune. I had to talk to her about blending. Playing soft allows the player to hear bad notes.

As to the problem with hearing yourself, have you tried playing just a little closer to the bridge? That may help you cut through enough to hear yourself. There are some modifications that you can do to your equipment that may help. A higher bridge(as long as it is still playable) will help and a new set of strings never hurt anybody! I put a wire tailpiece from Kevin Marvin on my bass while I was in college and it was like upgrading my bass. Louder, better quality of sound and lower tension.

Good luck!
 
#3
If you put your ear against the neck, you can usually hear yourself pretty clearly. Another benefit of this is it's a really nice passive-aggressive way to let the other player know that you hear something is up intonation wise and they may become a bit more self-aware.
 
#5
Well, your second player isn't doing his job that great... he needs to come up to you in volume, and no further (and come to you in pitch, if there's only two of you... nobody to break the tie, so you're the principal and he has to follow you). It should normally be pretty difficult to hear yourself play EXCEPT if you're in the principal chair.

It's quite possible he doesn't know any of this, and you should also make it very clear that it's not personal, it's just the only way things work in orchestra playing.

As for your instrument, there's probably plenty that can be done to get more sound out of it; I just swapped my strings from Corellis to Evah Pirazzis and the change in volume was enormous.
 
#6
Good tips, the action is pretty high as it is but maybe a change of strings is in the cards. This bass is being played as a Jazz instrument as well so I've been using the Jazz strings I bought for it, spiro mittels. Do you think some Evah Weichs might come out a little louder? I've heard that they're not to terrible for pizz either. Finding a good string for both is a PITA.
 
#7
CT DB said:
As an aside, does anyone think that it is generally easier to hear people next to you because of the acoustic properties of the bass, and the fact that it takes a few feet (or so I've heard) for the sound to come together?
Click to expand...

I would guess that it's more associated with the fact that most of the Bass' sound is projected through the top of the instrument and to a lesser extent from the back, neither of which are facing your ears directly.
 
#8
Well, Evah Weichs are pretty nice strings, that's what I'm using. I went from Spiro Weich (loud, tricky to bow but great when you get it just right) to Corellis (easy, quiet, very nice tone) to Evah Weich (harder work to play than the Corellis, but also much, much more volume and a sweeter tone with a trace of 'etch' with the bow when you want it). The Evahs have a very different pizz tone to the metal strings (Correlli tungsten and Spiros sound very similar pizz), but it's just as valid and sounds less like a fretless EB.

However... you could also look at how you're using your bow, too, because most people don't actually practice playing really loud. You shouldn't expect it to sound nice! The sound of a DB being played really loud is horribly scratchy and bright to the player, especially if you're in a small practice space, and this doesn't matter in the orchestra, you should expect it. Close to the bridge, strong bow weight, and quite slow bow speed; get that to not scrape and it will be LOUD. The brightness doesn't carry.
 
#10
I'm a community orchestra player as well and often have trouble hearing my own bass and also discerning intonation issues. Some ideas in addition:
1) Bring up intonation in a non-accuational problem solving "we aren't matching" perspective.
2) Try using the same tuner - they may not match
3) try a sectional
4) The neck trick mentioned above is helpful, suggest it to the other bassist was well, he may have trouble hearing who's who as well
5) Continue to work on your own intonation
Good luck

Good luck
 
#11
Don't want to hijack your topic. But I have a similar problem:

I play in a symphony orchestra with eight basses (sometimes even more).
It is very hard to know if you yourself are out of tune or the guy next to you or any of the other bassists.

How do you handle this in such a large section?
 
#14
I had the same issue (plywood bass, the rest of the people used carved)

And a switch to Bel Canto strings solved 75% of the problem (IME) in my volume. My spiros just were not doing the job for classical orchestra playing.

but one other thing I found out: I use an incredibly cheap glasser bow ($90). I traded with the guy next to me, who uses a bow that cost in the 500-800 dollar range, and the volume increased significantly!

So that's my next investment....then, if I feel I deserve it, I am getting a carved top bass later on.
 
#16
THE SAW said:
Seriously, why don't the 2 of you get together and play some duets? Instead of trying to get the guy fired, learn to work with people.

Nothing beats co-operation.
Click to expand...


So I'm not exactly sure where you got the impression that I was trying to get him kicked out...I think my OP was pretty clear that I was trying to learn to hear myself better while playing WITH a new player. Thanks for the tips. It looks pretty funny when I lean onto the neck but it seems to work when I need to distinguish between the two basses. Thanks guys.
 
#17
Welcome to section playing. As the leader of your section, you will probably be blamed for any problems, so that means it's perfectly reasonable and expected that you correct them before the conductor notices. As the leader, you determine the sound of the section and he follows. I'm a trumpet player, and if I'm doing anything wrong I'm happy to hear about it! Especially because everyone I play with is far beyond me, as I'm the only freshman in my section, and until recently I was self taught.
 
#18
That's actually where my issue stems from. Until a little over a year ago I was an ELECTRIC bass player. He's been playing longer than me and has had many more lessons. It just so happens that the conductor believes me to be a better musician and have a better grasp of what the music needs at this point. The whole "who's playing first chair" conversation was pretty uncomfortable as it was obvious that he believed otherwise. I'm attempting to make a cohesive sound while keeping the peace lol.
 
#20
OK Take the guy to the pub get him loosened up with a few drinks and find out what his philosophy is about bowung, fingering, intonnation, phrasing, orchestral playing in general is. Listen really carefully to what he says and then try to fit your own philosophy round that. Have a laugh and tell some jokes. Let him know that you think the section could work better if you got together on some major key points about playing.
THe duets idea is nice (and you should ley him know that although you've only been playing for a year, it's been a year in this orchestra and you know how they work even if it doesn't seem to fit exactly with your new deskies philosophy.)
If you get lessons from a local pro, try to get the new guy to go for some lessons with this guy too. He might turn out just to be going to the 'wrong' teacher!

All that being said, it might just be you.... OK you're the 1st bass but you've only been playing a year and there is a chance that you might learn from him. I'm having this problem a bit at the moment. I've been playing for 35 years but I just started in a new orchestra and the young girl sitting next to me seemed to be playing pizzicatos way too loud for my taste. I talked about it with her and the principal and it turns out that the orchestra likes loud pizz from the basses.... so I have to fit in even if I sit further up the section than she does. Check things out and talk it out (always diplomatically)
Good luck with the soloution.
FC
 

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