Help choosing an audio recorder - maybe the Zoom H4n Pro?

[Stagelab]

My brother wants to start recording acoustic guitar and vocals. He'd like to be able to bring the audio tracks into GarageBand for editing. Our collective goal is for him to export his tracks and send them to me so I can record bass parts (I use a Scarlett and go direct) and, maybe, lay down some programmed drum parts and pads on keys before mixing and exporting the tracks.

What are some recording devices you'd recommend for my bro under $175 new? He sent me a link to the Zoom H4n Pro. He doesn't plan to record live with a bunch of people so I'm not sure he needs 4 tracks. He doesn't have any external mics so having a device with good built-in mics for acoustic guitar and voice is key.

Initially, I was gonna recommend he buy a USB condenser mic and a cheap interface but maybe a recorder with built-in mics is a better move?

Would he need a mic stand for something like the Zoom H4n Pro?

 

[Aloe]

I have the non-pro h4n and it also works as audio interface, with built in mics or with xlr/jack inputs. the only grief with mine is the inability to set gain differently for both channels. well, there is a second, in more than a decade since I own one, it's not as shiny, plastic became kinda sticky over time. cannot really comment on the built-in mikes, frankly never used them on studio recording, to me they're more like a room mic than a condenser, you'll want to record vocals into. I've used a cheap dynamic mic in my Zoom instead.

this said, a proper audio interface is a much more solid investment, and you'll eventually buy it down the road anyway. yeah, a basic Scarlett or Audiobox will just sound better and would be more convenient for a studio work, not field recording. this would be more bucks at the start, but the results would be much better. I'd say, under 500 could give a nice interface and a condenser both new. if going with a cheaper dynamic (sm57), that would be like 250 new, and it also would be better than a Zoom alone frankly.

 

[Stagelab]

I have the non-pro h4n and it also works as audio interface, with built in mics or with xlr/jack inputs. the only grief with mine is the inability to set gain differently for both channels. well, there is a second, in more than a decade since I own one, it's not as shiny, plastic became kinda sticky over time. cannot really comment on the built-in mikes, frankly never used them on studio recording, to me they're more like a room mic than a condenser, you'll want to record vocals into. I've used a cheap dynamic mic in my Zoom instead.

this said, a proper audio interface is a much more solid investment, and you'll eventually buy it down the road anyway. yeah, a basic Scarlett or Audiobox will just sound better and would be more convenient for a studio work, not field recording. this would be more bucks at the start, but the results would be much better. I'd say, under 500 could give a nice interface and a condenser both new. if going with a cheaper dynamic (sm57), that would be like 250 new, and it also would be better than a Zoom alone frankly.

Thanks. In that case, maybe this would be best: Audio Technica AT2020 condenser and either a Scarlett solo, M Audio M-Track Duo or PreSonus AudioBox Go. If he’s recording by himself he just needs a single channel. All that’s left is a cheap mic stand and an XLR.

Just found out my brother has a PC. That’s gonna make collaboration a little tricky. I assume if he used a free DAW like Cakewalk, and exported his tracks as wav files, that I could drop the files into Garageband and record my tracks while listening to his? In terms of mixing/mastering, I’d still be able to set volume per track and add things like compression at the track or master track level, right? My brother won’t be recording any midi.

 

[Aloe]

All that’s left is a cheap mic stand and an XLR.

don't forget closed-backed headphones and a pop filter.

Just found out my brother has a PC. That’s gonna make collaboration a little tricky. I assume if he used a free DAW like Cakewalk, and exported his tracks as wav files, that I could drop the files into Garageband and record my tracks while listening to his? In terms of mixing/mastering, I’d still be able to set volume per track and add things like compression at the track or master track level, right? My brother won’t be recording any midi.

well, first bad news is that cakewalk isn't free anymore. the good is that exporting stems works (and is somewhat of industry standard), but a bit cumbersome if your stems travel back and forth. sharing a Garageband project through iCloud is much easier. if he has an iPhone or an iPad, he can record to GarageBand there.

 

[mcrawfordmusic]

The H4N is a good all-round field recorder. It's not specifically designed for recording musical instruments, but the XY condenser mic will be OK on an acoustic if you get the placement right. The two XLR pre's also give you room for expanding, but be aware that you'll need to record in "mono mode" if you are only using one XLR pre, otherwise it will be hard-panned to one side. If you have the budget, I'd highly recommend looking at the H6 essential.
And yes, you will need a stand to minimise vibrations. The accessory kit comes with a mini tripod and a grip that can be used to put it on a regular mic stand.

The other (and probably better) option would be as suggested above - a USB audio interface, a large-diaphragm condenser mic and studio headphones. These days, even the really cheap stuff is fine for home recording, especially if you're only doing one track at a time. And a large-diaphragm condenser mic is very versatile and can be used on vocals, acoustic guitars, drums, guitar amps...anything really if you are mindful of placement and SPL (sound pressure). There are "starter packs" from companies like Behringer, Steinberg and Focusrite that are budget conscious and available everywhere. Good luck!

 

[Stagelab]

The H4N is a good all-round field recorder. It's not specifically designed for recording musical instruments, but the XY condenser mic will be OK on an acoustic if you get the placement right. The two XLR pre's also give you room for expanding, but be aware that you'll need to record in "mono mode" if you are only using one XLR pre, otherwise it will be hard-panned to one side. If you have the budget, I'd highly recommend looking at the H6 essential.
And yes, you will need a stand to minimise vibrations. The accessory kit comes with a mini tripod and a grip that can be used to put it on a regular mic stand.

The other (and probably better) option would be as suggested above - a USB audio interface, a large-diaphragm condenser mic and studio headphones. These days, even the really cheap stuff is fine for home recording, especially if you're only doing one track at a time. And a large-diaphragm condenser mic is very versatile and can be used on vocals, acoustic guitars, drums, guitar amps...anything really if you are mindful of placement and SPL (sound pressure). There are "starter packs" from companies like Behringer, Steinberg and Focusrite that are budget conscious and available everywhere. Good luck!

Right, I'm now thinking he's better off getting an interface and a condenser mic. I sent him these recs earlier.

Mic: Audio Technica AT2021 or AKG P170
Interface: Scarlett Focusrite Solo, M Audio M-Track Duo or PreSonus AudioBox Go.

Plus a boom stand and an XLR cable (XLR Male to XLR Female).

Good point about the starter kits. Just sent him these links.

Scarlett 2i2 Studio [3rd Gen] - Refurbished

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Studio 3rd Gen - Refurbished provides singer-songwriters with an all-in-one solution for a reassuringly easy recording process.

us.focusrite.com

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[Stagelab]

don't forget closed-backed headphones and a pop filter.



well, first bad news is that cakewalk isn't free anymore. the good is that exporting stems works (and is somewhat of industry standard), but a bit cumbersome if your stems travel back and forth. sharing a Garageband project through iCloud is much easier. if he has an iPhone or an iPad, he can record to GarageBand there.

He doesn’t have an iPhone or iPad. Are there other free DAWs for PC? Audacity?

We were gonna upload .wav files to a shared google drive.

Yes to studio headphones and pop filter.

 

[Aloe]

He doesn’t have an iPhone or iPad. Are there other free DAWs for PC? Audacity?

at one hand, it doesn't really matter that much what exactly incompatible DAW will be your brother using, since you're going to transfer stems.

at other, I won't recommend Audacity. I don't use nor it, nor Windows these days, but from Google it seems like the official build doesn't support ASIO, for example, it's not a really grown-up DAW.

there're some affordable DAWs out there, not free, but affordable. to name a few that I think suit your workflow:
* Cubase Elements. up to 48 audio tracks and 8 sends. reverb, de-esser, virtual drummer and some virtual instruments. a $100 package. exporting stems for multiple tracks might be not as straightforward and a bit time-consuming as they left out the best part of this for the Pro version, but it will work: it's actually not more inconvenient regarding exporting stems than your GarageBand is, same limitations apply.
* Reaper. bare-bones DAW with no restrictions. unlimited tracks and buses, easy to export stems for all tracks at once, cool configurable metronome. but no reverb or virtual instruments ready to use. a non-commercial license is only $60.

also please note that Focusrite interfaces come with Ableton Lite. not sure, if it will suit your workflow good (it's a more of EDM-oriented stuff than a typical singer-songwriter workflow), but if your brother will end up with a Focusrite interface, let him try it first before spending more bucks at other stuff.

Focusrite interfaces also come bundled with a basic reverb; virtual drums and piano and some other useful plugins. also pay attention to the free Kontakt player for more virtual instruments to start with.

 

[EvilJ]

Reaper and the best mic you can afford. 100%

 

[brianrost]

He doesn’t have an iPhone or iPad. Are there other free DAWs for PC? Audacity?

If he buys an interface, it will come with a DAW. Focusrite includes Ableton Live Lite which is more than enough for this application.

 

[MuseChaser]

Another vote for Reaper (which DOES support plugins and comes with reverb and a host of others, and can be used fully during a lengthy "trial period" for free, although the $60 cost is a steal), a Focusrite Scarlett interface (I'd move up the ladder a bit from the Solo... A few more mins/outs will always be appreciated in the future, and don't add that much to the unit's cost), and a decent cheap mic. The mic (and eventually mic preamp) are the biggest rabbit holes, cost-wise. I would NOT limit the choices to LDCs (large diaphragm condensers).. an SM57 is a perfectly valid choice, as are quite a few other dynamic and SDC mics.

 

[Stagelab]

Another vote for Reaper (which DOES support plugins and comes with reverb and a host of others, and can be used fully during a lengthy "trial period" for free, although the $60 cost is a steal), a Focusrite Scarlett interface (I'd move up the ladder a bit from the Solo... A few more mins/outs will always be appreciated in the future, and don't add that much to the unit's cost), and a decent cheap mic. The mic (and eventually mic preamp) are the biggest rabbit holes, cost-wise. I would NOT limit the choices to LDCs (large diaphragm condensers).. an SM57 is a perfectly valid choice, as are quite a few other dynamic and SDC mics.

At this stage I’m recommending he get a Scarlett starter kit, a mic stand (kit doesn’t include one), and a pop filter. This refurbished kit has the 2-channel interface, in case he ever wants to record with a friend where he lives. He and I live on opposite ends of the US.

Scarlett 2i2 Studio [3rd Gen] - Refurbished

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Studio 3rd Gen - Refurbished provides singer-songwriters with an all-in-one solution for a reassuringly easy recording process.

www.googleadservices.com

We’re just looking to make some music together for our own enjoyment. No big plans to record an album and put it on streaming platforms.

 

[tothemax]

I have a Tascam DR-40x that I picked up when my 10 year old DR-05 got glitchy, mostly because I was familiar with the Tascam controls. I really like it, the recording is excellent. I've been using the 4 channel mode to record our band practices, the built in X\Y condenser mics and two overhead condenser mics. The recording are pretty decent, the 4-channel output is two stereo tracks and I split the tracks with Audacity for quick mixes to send out to the band. It's not individual tracks as from a mixer but excellent for practice recordings. The recording quality is 3x that of the DR-05, I'm very pleased.

I think the specs are similar to the Zoom unit, and it does work as a USB interface... It's nice having the option to be portable, both the Tascam and Zoom units get good reviews.

Cheers and good luck

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[Gopherbassist]

My last guitar teacher had a Zoom recorder and liked it. My understanding is the new ones can also be used as audio interfaces for your computer. If that's the case it seems like a good buy all around.

 

[vvvmmm]

Zooms have long been interfaces.

I use a R16 to record live bands (8 tracks in, and then often add overdubs in the DAW), but have long used an H2 which sounds great for stereo recordings, for cheap.