HELP DRUMMER SPEEDS UP!

[Ten Four One]

You should also determine if the drummer can't consistently keep the initial tempo OR if they are pushing the song because they think it needs to go faster.
BTW...99% of us think we have great time.

I think I have horrible time & a horrible sense of pitch, which is why I put effort into these things. This is the kind of insecurity you develop when you play with musicians who are better than you are... But then, like the Karate Kid, one day you see someone who really has bad time or a bad sense of pitch and you realize that you've actually been learning from them all this time. (Though I still can't figure out why my music teacher thinks vacuuming his car is essential for my skill progression...)

Make your drummer get one of these. Just be like "can I borrow $300?" and instead of paying him back, hand him this box. If he won't lend you $300, then borrow $20 and get him a $20 metronome.♪

♪ note: this is a joke, I take no responsibility for whether or not you get kicked in the nuts after doing this.

I'm an OLD guy with thousands of gigs and sessions behind me, and I can tell you one thing I've learned: Bandmates CANNOT (in 99% of cases) improve the performance/ability of ANY other musician in any band. Pride may be a sin, but NONE of us - playing ANY instrument - is totally down with being told by bandmates that play a DIFFERENT instrument, that we're not playing ours correctly.

It's a stone fact. Do your arm hairs not prickle when the guitarist tries to correct your bass playing? Don't you want to shove the mic up his presumptuous ass when the singer tells you you're not playing the part right? No drummer wants to hear from the bass player that his meter sucks. I've told many drummers this, (and WANTED to tell many more), but by then I'd learned: You can't improve a bandmates' performance. If you can't work with your drummer, tell your other bandmates and try to get them to agree to look for another guy.

On the other hand, if your drummer is basically pretty good and you get along great, then maybe a few more months of practice will kinda 'teach' you where he speeds up and slows down. For instance, I always KNOW that my drummer speeds up whenever he takes an occasional lead vocal, so I can anticipate that. It made life in my band a lot easier.

+1. Except for the being an old guy bit. Stop being an uptight human metronome and either learn to love it, or find someone else who's also an uptight human metronome.♪

♪ note: if you find being called an uptight human metronome insulting, just imagine how he would feel being told his sense of rhythm sucks by an uptight human metronome.

 

[DocBop]

You need to establish the time keeper for the band. In rehearsal if he starts speeding hold your ground and look at him. He should get a clue what you are doing. I would imagine the topic of time should come up after that and talk it out. If he's aware of his time problem then should be okay letting you be the time keeper. Then should be easy to communicate when playing with eye glances and signals.

 

[SwamiRob]

Our drummer speeds up a bit now and again, but were pretty well meshed as a band now so when he speeds up, we all do. Obviously it's not great, and he's getting better at it because aside from that he's proper awesome, but at least we're all in time.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I'm an OLD guy with thousands of gigs and sessions behind me, and I can tell you one thing I've learned: Bandmates CANNOT (in 99% of cases) improve the performance/ability of ANY other musician in any band. Pride may be a sin, but NONE of us - playing ANY instrument - is totally down with being told by bandmates that play a DIFFERENT instrument, that we're not playing ours correctly.

It's a stone fact. Do your arm hairs not prickle when the guitarist tries to correct your bass playing? Don't you want to shove the mic up his presumptuous ass when the singer tells you you're not playing the part right? No drummer wants to hear from the bass player that his meter sucks. I've told many drummers this, (and WANTED to tell many more), but by then I'd learned: You can't improve a bandmates' performance. If you can't work with your drummer, tell your other bandmates and try to get them to agree to look for another guy.

I hate to take this thread off track but 99% is misleading and closes peoples minds to helping others.

One group I play with is 11 people the average age is mid 30s (range 22 to 53) and all but 2 members have a minimum of a BA in music, 3 have masters degrees and 1 has a docturate; all in music. The reason I mention this is that all are well accomplished musicians with varying skills. When someone points out a place that needs improvement or something isn't quite right we listen and learn even if it does hurt our ego on occassion.

When you put the ego aside and put the music first allot can be accomplished. I think it's pretty sad that you've played thousands of gigs and sessions and only have this experience less then 1% of the time.

I can say with certainty that the majority of members of this group past and present have improved their skills while in this group. I do consider myself lucky!

 

[Ten Four One]

Personally, I don't like changing the tempo during a song. So you need the drummer to recognize the correct tempo before starting the song.

Record practice or a show and play it back for him. Hearing it should make him realize the issue.

IMHO this is probably the best way to actually make him aware of his problem. But you have to sit there and tap out the rhythm for him to show him exactly where he's speeding up & make him hear the difference between your taps & his playing. Otherwise he'll just hear it the way he hears it when playing and not think that he's speeding up.

Then he needs to work with a metronome until he internalizes the beat. It's a touchy subject & I'm not sure how I would broach it with a drummer. I think it really depends on your objectives as a musician, if it's "just a hobby" then you may want to let it slide since he may not want to put in the extra work to come up to your standards for something he's doing just for fun, but if your intention is to make money with this, then you really need to find the best musicians you can, and I'm just not sure taking someone who's not ready yet & training him will be fast enough. At the end of the day, it's a judgment call.

 

[Ten Four One]

I hate to take this thread off track but 99% is misleading and closes peoples minds to helping others.

One group I play with is 11 people the average age is mid 30s (range 22 to 53) and all but 2 members have a minimum of a BA in music, 3 have masters degrees and 1 has a docturate; all in music. The reason I mention this is that all are well accomplished musicians with varying skills. When someone points out a place that needs improvement or something isn't quite right we listen and learn even if it does hurt our ego on occassion.

When you put the ego aside and put the music first allot can be accomplished. I think it's pretty sad that you've played thousands of gigs and sessions and only have this experience less then 1% of the time.

I can say with certainty that the majority of members of this group past and present have improved their skills while in this group. I do consider myself lucky!

Yeah, it's really a matter of what your & the other musicians goals are. If you can find an environment that's open to that sort of thing, that's great. But if you're just playing with your friends for kicks, they're not going to be open to that sort of thing.

 

[TimWilson]

I hate to take this thread off track but 99% is misleading and closes peoples minds to helping others.

One group I play with is 11 people the average age is mid 30s (range 22 to 53) and all but 2 members have a minimum of a BA in music, 3 have masters degrees and 1 has a docturate; all in music.


I think it's pretty safe to say that an 11-member band comprised of musicians with advanced degrees in music falls WELL within the 1% minority! You're a lucky guy!

 

[tjbsilv]

We had this issue with our new drummer when he joined a few months back. He has tons of experience, but came from a band that played everything way too fast. To his credit, he has worked very hard at correcting the situation.

Here's what we did: He got a small programmable metronome with a blinking red light that he keeps right beside him. During rehearsals, we came to a consensus on the tempo of every song we do, and he programmed the BPM of each song into the metronome. Befor each gig, he sets up the metronome for each set, and after each song, he flips to the next, and clicks us in on the exact tempo of the song coming up. That way, he starts at the right tempo, and keeps it there because all he has to do is glance at the blinking light to check his tempo. It has worked like a charm!

TJ

 

[TimWilson]

I hate to take this thread off track but 99% is misleading and closes peoples minds to helping others.

I think it's pretty sad that you've played thousands of gigs and sessions and only have this experience less then 1% of the time.

One more thing: I agree COMPLETELY that it's sad to have a communal musical learning experience like the one you've enjoyed less than 1% of the time, but that's reality. Most musicians aren't interested in being improved by what they consider to be no more than peers. By superiors, teachers, idols, heros, etc: sure, but not by your drinking buddy standing stage left, gapin' at the boobies along with you. I didn't make the rules, I just learned 'em.

 

[TimWilson]

We had this issue with our new drummer when he joined a few months back. He has tons of experience, but came from a band that played everything way too fast. To his credit, he has worked very hard at correcting the situation.

Here's what we did: He got a small programmable metronome with a blinking red light that he keeps right beside him. During rehearsals, we came to a consensus on the tempo of every song we do, and he programmed the BPM of each song into the metronome. Befor each gig, he sets up the metronome for each set, and after each song, he flips to the next, and clicks us in on the exact tempo of the song coming up. That way, he starts at the right tempo, and keeps it there because all he has to do is glance at the blinking light to check his tempo. It has worked like a charm!

TJ

Is that the Beat Bug? I read that the drummer from Skid Row used to use one to keep himself on-meter.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

All drummers fluctuate a little bit. If I had to choose between the two, I'd rather have a drummer that speeds up than slows down. Still speeding up for no reason whatsoever is annoying. I've got one right now that does that when we switch into punk sections. We're working on it. I've identified the sections and told him to hold his kick steady, then everything else should fall in place.

 

[SwamiRob]

Yeah, it's really a matter of what your & the other musicians goals are. If you can find an environment that's open to that sort of thing, that's great. But if you're just playing with your friends for kicks, they're not going to be open to that sort of thing.

You serious? Are you really more comfortable giving advice to a stranger over your friends? I personally try take on advice of other musicians regardless of their instrument. I like to hear feedback from poeple who are just listeners too to be honest, cos they always have a unique way of putting things, you don't have to be able to play anything to be familiar enough with music to give feedback.

In my band we have a little experience with bass, guitar and drums, and we all help each other with our playing, and contribute to each others parts when were writing songs. We would be a much lesser band if this didn't happen, and I couldn't see how most good bands are any good without this sort of communication.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Record practice or a show and play it back for him. Hearing it should make him realize the issue.

IMO this is the best piece of advice to keep him honest.

I recently recorded a promotional DVD with a group, the same one I described earlier. We did 24 songs in 4 hours, nobody noticed at the time but the first 3 or 4 tunes were rushed and didn't sit right in the pocket how we wanted them too. It really is a shame because nobody noticed this because of the nerves and pressure surrounding the whole situation.

It was very apparent during playback that it was a huge oversite on our part.

 

[CapnSev]

Isn't this one of the unforgivable sins of a drummer? I understand the tempo is never going to be 100%, but shouldn't it be almost un-noticable? I mean, you are a drummer, tempo should be your master.

 

[Ten Four One]

You serious?

Never...

 

[SwamiRob]

I didn't mean it in an arrogant "like oh my god are you serious?!" Beverly Hills kinda tone. Just I don't see how you can't tell your friends straight up of what you think of what they do, but don't have that problem with people you don't really know.

 

[Ten Four One]

I didn't mean it in an arrogant "like oh my god are you serious?!" Beverly Hills kinda tone. Just I don't see how you can't tell your friends straight up of what you think of what they do, but don't have that problem with people you don't really know.

I totally agree that if it's your friends, or if you've built up trust with the people you're playing with you can be much more straightforward. If it's the first time you're meeting these people then you sort of want to restrain the overly critical side of your personality or whatever. "I think you're a little flat there.... you sped up during the second chorus... did you play a G major 7? How about trying a B minor 7 there instead?... You're rhythm work is great, but I think your lead solo was a bit off, plus you were too loud, why don't you turn down and try some pentatonic box patterns there?" - That's precisely the kind of stuff that needs to wait until you know these people for a while and know their level of commitment to music & the band.

The OP already said that this guy was new & not some long time friend or anything. If he'd known him for 20 years I don't think he'd be posting this question.

What I'm talking about is casual players v. more serious players, and new players v. more seasoned players. I may have said "friends" to mean "people who get together casually to play music," and I think you mistook me to mean serious, life-long friends. I meant it in contrast to people you have something approaching a professional relationship with where there's a fundamental understanding that the music is more important than individual egos or whatever.

Music is an art as much as it is a science if not more so & I've been in the studio with musicians who were serious ******* perfectionists and it completely kills the reason you want to make music in the first place. It makes you self conscious, kills your inspiration and generally makes you not want to make music with those people. Don't be one of those people. If you want to get gigs, learn how to get along with the people you're playing with.

Peoples egos get tied up in their playing and they can take criticisms like this very personally if you don't handle it right. You have to approach these things in the right way, especially when the relationship is new.

 

[SwamiRob]

Yeah that makes alot more sense. Most of my friends play an instrument of some persuation, so I don't often end up having to get into those situations thankfully. Do end up playing with people I'm not so familiar with at jam nights, but obviously that alot more informal (and what I didn't understand that you were getting at in the first place )

I did overlook the whole him being a new guy that he didn't know thing, was probably just being slow and brushed over the impication of "found a good drummer"... nevermind

 

[Snerek]

wow.. you are all great!

thanks for the advice.. i've taken away a lot of good ideas for this occurrence. tomorrow night we are rehearsing and i plan on taking over as the 'time keeper'.

i will report back and let you guys know how it goes and what works.. this band is my baby, and i'm going to take this very seriously and not let sub par playing slide by...

thanks again...

 

[SwamiRob]

Yeah in my band our drummer followed us 3 guitarists to keep in check for a long time, but he's pretty much stopped doing that so much and realised that HE needs to keep US in time.