Help: Identifying old flatwounds

[MattiZ]

There is a mystery flatwound set on the fretless ’81 Yamaha BB2000 I just bought a week ago. I think they could be D’Addario Chromes, except the silk colour does not match. The headstock silks are red with an orangeish hue, no silks at the ball ends. Ball ends are very tarnished brass, and there is some visible oxidisation on the string core.

So they are obviously old. But the thing is, those strings sound and play great. Very balanced across all strings, both in feel and in tone. Clear and cutting higs, punchy lows, some dip in mids.

Did direct comparisons with flatwound sets on my other basses. I’m certain they are not Rotosounds, GHS Precisions or Galli flats. Not EB Cobalts, Dunlops or LaBellas either.

I’d never tried D’Addario Chromes before yesterday. So I bought a set and installed them on another fretless. They match almost perfectly: the strings feel alike, they sound very similar (obviously the old ones have aged, but the basic sound is there), they have the similar slightly bluish metallic hue to them that somebody mentioned in another string discussion.

(Strings on the BB1200S are Rotosounds, for comparison)
So, just to confirm: am I correct in assuming these strings are ancient Chromes? They may have been on the bass since early ’80s, for all I know. Does Anybody know or remember whether there have been changes in D’Addario’s silk colours during the past few decades?

Thanks!

 

[michael_t]

There is a mystery flatwound set on the fretless ’81 Yamaha BB2000 I just bought a week ago. I think they could be D’Addario Chromes, except the silk colour does not match. The headstock silks are red with an orangeish hue, no silks at the ball ends. Ball ends are very tarnished brass, and there is some visible oxidisation on the string core.

Orange-ish red silk with brass ball ends with no wilk at the ball end = old La Bella 760FL (43-104).

That said, the silk on the BB2000 looks more like "burgundy" to me in the pic, in which case they could possibly be the La Bella Low Tension Flats.

Either way they're La Bella for sure.

 

[MattiZ]

Orange-ish red silk with brass ball ends with no wilk at the ball end = old La Bella 760FL (43-104).

That said, the silk on the BB2000 looks more like "burgundy" to me in the pic, in which case they could possibly be the La Bella Low Tension Flats.

Either way they're La Bella for sure.

Thanks, this is interesting. My only experiences with La Bellas have been a recent 760FS set and a 767-6F set for Bass VI. Not only is the feel completely different, La Bellas being smooth as glass and these mystery strings considerably rougher, but also the sound - La Bellas being very dead sounding, these oldies much clearer with less mids. Hmm.

 

[MattiZ]

Another photo, this time with more realistic colours. The Rotosounds are bright red, the mystery strings more orange-ish, or faded, or burnt.

 

[Timothy Brosnan]

Orange-ish red silk with brass ball ends with no wilk at the ball end = old La Bella 760FL (43-104).

That said, the silk on the BB2000 looks more like "burgundy" to me in the pic, in which case they could possibly be the La Bella Low Tension Flats.

Either way they're La Bella for sure.

If they are old, they could be older La Bella 760FX flats. They have a dark green silk now, but used to have an orangey looking silk.

Orange-ish red silk with brass ball ends with no wilk at the ball end = old La Bella 760FL (43-104).

That said, the silk on the BB2000 looks more like "burgundy" to me in the pic, in which case they could possibly be the La Bella Low Tension Flats.

Either way they're La Bella for sure.

 

[MattiZ]

If they are old, they could be older La Bella 760FX flats. They have a dark green silk now, but used to have an orangey looking silk.

Interesting indeed. Two points:
1. They don’t look, feel or sound like any La Bella set I’ve tried. They resemble D’Addario Chromes, apart from the silks (and uncolored ball ends).

2. If they really are from 80’s or early 90’s, I believe La Bella was not available locally. As an 80’s kid who started playing bass in ’84 or so, I faintly remember there being D’Addario, Fender, Rotosound and SIT strings in the music shops, probably some european strings (like Optima or Pyramid) but no La Bella.

When did D’Addario introduce the colour-coded ball ends? 90’s?

 

[HaphAsSard]

probably some european strings (like Optima

Regular Optima ("Chrome") flats have orange silks (unlike their RB flats, which have purple silks, or so I've read).
However, if I'm not mistaken, they have them at both ends. They might be old ones, but it seems weird that they'd recently reinstate the legacy practice of silking the bridge end.* (By the way, they have black ball-ends now.) Is there any trace of silks having been removed manually at the bridge? Some CSI stuff like a single, orange thread? ^^'

* [Weird, but not impossible: up until 2010 Fender flats only had silk (dark green) at one end - curiously, at the bridge end only! - but they switched to silks at both ends (a lighter shade of green) after their strings were outsourced.]

 

[MattiZ]

Regular Optima ("Chrome") flats have orange silks (unlike their RB flats, which have purple silks, or so I've read).
However, if I'm not mistaken, they have them at both ends. They might be old ones, but it seems weird that they'd recently reinstate the legacy practice of silking the bridge end.* (By the way, they have black ball-ends now.) Is there any trace of silks having been removed manually at the bridge? Some CSI stuff like a single, orange thread? ^^'

* [Weird, but not impossible: up until 2010 Fender flats only had silk (dark green) at one end - curiously, at the bridge end only! - but they switched to silks at both ends (a lighter shade of green) after their strings were outsourced.]

No traces of silk at the ball ends.

 

[Matt O]

Another vote for LaBella 760FX. If you have calipers to confirm, they would measure a rather unique .039 .056 .077 .096

 

[Grizelda100]

They look like TI's to me.

 

[LHbassist]

The core windings look JUST like a nearly 20 year old set of Rotosound RS77's that I still have. Do you have access to a dial caliper? If so, measure the string gauges, and compare to both the LaBellas, and the RS77. OLD Rotosound RS77 flats came in one gauge. HEAVY. They are great strings, but quite stiff. You mention the tone- I have had this set of old Rotosounds on several basses, and they absolutely amaze me, at how much ring they still have! LaBellas of that vintage, will not have that at all. Even some recent basses I have heard and played with fairly new LaBellas, do not have that ringing timbre, they are definitely a more 'dead' or thumpy sounding string.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Another photo, this time with more realistic colours. The Rotosounds are bright red, the mystery strings more orange-ish, or faded, or burnt.
View attachment 5097778

I think michael_t is correct. This looks very much like an older set of LaBella 706FL. I have one of these sets installed on one of my favourite basses so I use them all the time. I don't understand the comparison with D'Addario Chomes though. LaBella DTFs and D'Addario Chromes should be on the extreme opposite sides of the flatwound spectrum.

LaBellas = dark tone with bouncy/thumpy dynamics.
D'Addarios = much brighter tone, a lot more upper mid clank, stiffer dynamics, more sustain.

You've already ruled out LaBellas but have you ever played a truly broken-in set of LaBellas? A fresh set of LaBellas will sound a lot more similar to D'Addario Chromes. After a couple of months LaBella flats will start to mellow out and sound great but it can take YEARS of playing for them to develop the classic LaBella tone.

The only other strings I can think of with orange silks are Optima Chromes but these have a lighter shade of orange and the strings themselves are also less smooth and shiny than the LaBellas (and the ones in your pic). Great strings though! As for silks at the ball end I can't remember and I've got bridge covers+foam that obscures the view... But I'm 99% certain that michael_t is correct and the strings on your BB are LaBella 760FL.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Actually, looking at the pics of the mystery strings again on a different screen they aren't quite as smooth and shiny as I first though. I'm not so sure they're LaBellas after all... Could be Optima Chromes. Still nowhere near the stiffer, clankier D'Addario Chromes though... but a small step in that direction compared to LaBellas.

 

[MattiZ]

I’ll be taking some more photos tomorrow in a better light. And probably ask La Bella, Optima and D’Addario, if any of them would recognise the strings.

To me, they still look, feel and sound quite like an ECB84 set and nothing like La Bellas.

Ouch, it feels my OCD is taking control.

 

[trothwell]

I might suggest, they could be so old that it's not something well-known today. Like some obscure OEM brand. Or an artifact of some decades-old quality control or supply issues, such as, oops, they were out of blue silk so they used orange on a batch of strings.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I’ll be taking some more photos tomorrow in a better light. And probably ask La Bella, Optima and D’Addario, if any of them would recognise the strings.

To me, they still look, feel and sound quite like an ECB84 set and nothing like La Bellas.

Ouch, it feels my OCD is taking control.

Have you got a caliper handy? Gauges might restrict the search.

 

[MattiZ]

I might suggest, they could be so old that it's not something well-known today. Like some obscure OEM brand. Or an artifact of some decades-old quality control or supply issues, such as, oops, they were out of blue silk so they used orange on a batch of strings.

Creative thinking, I like it! These strings could be 40+ years old - improbable, not impossible - so they may remain a mystery.

 

[MattiZ]

Have you got a caliper handy? Gauges might restrict the search.

Nope. I’ll have to get one!