Help! Loud drummer, feedback issues, not hearing vocals....

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by WardEarth, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. LowNloud1

    LowNloud1 Commercial User

    Jun 11, 2012
    Wilmington NC
    I am a hobbyist making stone picks that I sell but mostly give away. They made me do this anyways.
    Do you use a mix board for vocals and/or instruments?
  2. Thanks guys, just bought one of those ev mics, went with the ev96, found a used one under 140. Maybe I'll just stick it out, try and find the good gigs, we'll see
    eriky4003 and RoadRanger like this.
  3. Michael Schreiber

    Michael Schreiber Commercial User

    Oct 14, 2014
    Kassel / Germany
    No, it won't - it will rock even more, especially for the audience, IMO!
    But, being in a band with an incredibly loud drummer myself, I also understand that it's only fair that he plays as he feels right; it's his style and he's good at it. Putting his playing on a leash, I wouldn't want that.

    For us, it works to monitor vocals with ear plugs; my vocal mic goes into an interface (Focusrite Scarlett), where it is amplified, then routed to each of us; we're using cable-bound body pack headphone preamps (Fischer Amps Body Pack). The interface provides enough gain, and the body packs have a built-in limiter.

    Works perfect; I can hear my vocals clearly and dynamic enough to recognise when I'm not close enough at the mic; and even our drummer who was sceptical at first mentioned he's very surprised, works superb for him, too.

    Side benefit: The (normal not customised) ear-plugs also dampen the sound by quite some dB, which really helps me. Otherwise, I'd be deaf already :D

    Maybe it works for you, as well.
    Anyway, much success and much fun - rock! \m/
  4. Thanks man, the other side of the problem is blasting the audience. All 5 bands were just too loud last night.
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
  5. basted


    Jul 22, 2017
    Hobart , Tasmania
    We had a keyboard player who said he was concerned about his hearing and started wearing ear plugs. The problem was that he then couldn't hear himself as well so would turn up and drown us out.
    You need to have " the conversation".
  6. RoadRanger

    RoadRanger Supporting Member

    Feb 18, 2004
    NE CT
    Did the INTENDED AUDIENCE think so? I used to do sound and there were always folks coming up to me thanking me for not assaulting them :wideyed: but the hearing damaged musicians and their burnt out ears "posses" would rather the normals get driven out of their clubs so I said **** it and joined them since I couldn't beat them LOL.
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
  7. Ya, it was overkill, the problem was how tight the space was and the shape of the bar. Most of the aggravation was the single speaker PA and the feedback that was happening. Feedback hurts. People still enjoyed the music, don't get me wrong. Got some complements from friends, but its not really their opinion that matters, I know enough to know good sound vs bad sound. And I got to hear the other 4 bands from the audience perspective, I got blasted and spent most of the night chatting outside.
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
  8. RoadRanger

    RoadRanger Supporting Member

    Feb 18, 2004
    NE CT
    Feedback can be tamed - and one BIG issue with being too loud is a singing drummer in a loud band, his mic picks up the kit LOUDER than his vocal with the usual SM58 type mic. I use an N/D967 for any drummer even in a moderate rock band - big help keeping the kit bleed out of the PA.
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
  9. Five String

    Five String Supporting Member

    Sorry but what makes the biggest impression on me is that you have a drummer and guitarist who should already be aware of the problem they have created without your telling them. The fact that you have to bring this to your attention means they don't care that they can't each each other or the vocalist or you. For them, music is all about them hearing themselves very loud, not collaborating with other people to make a cooperative product. For example, my guess is they have no idea when you or the vocalist are performing great or making lots of mistakes.
    It may sound harsh but if the drummer and guitarist don't react very favorably very quickly to your suggestions (which are very reasonable by the way), they never will. At that point, it will be up to you to decide whether you want to deal with the extreme volume, and the fact that ultimately the guitarist and drummer don't care what you are playing.
  10. RoadRanger

    RoadRanger Supporting Member

    Feb 18, 2004
    NE CT
    ^ Heck, what lead gui**** listens to anything but themselves? LOL
    tshapiro and Michael Schreiber like this.
  11. Only the good ones, my friend, only the good ones.
    tshapiro and Michael Schreiber like this.
  12. A band is a team no a race who's play more louder ,thats is the problem
    tshapiro likes this.
  13. Ya that's kinda what it feels like, although these guys do care about the music and are making good stuff. Its loud rock, and I want it to be more technical rock. The drummer doesn't sing, just the guitarist and myself. Guitarists voice is super high and cuts through much better than my deep voice. Its a great dynamic though, just hard for me to push through the mix in any way. My pa in my person practice space is pretty nice, a b-52 with 10's 600 watts. but the rentals spots just seems to feedback way more easily. and the rental spot is double the room size. strange imo.
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
  14. Michael Schreiber

    Michael Schreiber Commercial User

    Oct 14, 2014
    Kassel / Germany
    Single speaker for vocals? That's when I also experienced feedback.
    Solution was: Getting a second speaker, and a 31-band EQ to adapt to the room.

    The second speaker allows for a better sound distribution - and with the EQ you tame the frequencies that are most prone to feedback, depending on the room, number of people inside etc..
    Plus: No need to drive the vocals too hard ; as soon as you have proper monitoring (hearing yourself), then you are free to set the PA to a volume suitable for the audience alone; not for hearing yourself. And feedback shouldn't be an issue, especially with a (hyper)cardioid mic, like the one you mentioned - don't know the EV 96, just read it's a hypercardioid which should be fine.

    Don't give up - it's good that you've recognised the problem and won't ignore it but improve your performance.
    That's respectable, me thinks. Much success! \m/
  15. Spent


    May 15, 2011
    Upstate NY
    Been there. Very frustrating. We lost gigs because we were too loud. I'm reality it was the drummer. I think he took pride in being a "heavy handed" drummer. No finesse, just volume. I don't miss it.
    Michael Schreiber and obimark like this.
  16. Nev375


    Nov 2, 2010
    The first part of problem solving is getting a clear and concise statement of the actual problem. Let me try:

    Your drummer sucks and your guitarist sucks and they aren't going to change.

    Hope that helps you find the best course of action.

    ...And by the way, if you need me to elaborate on how I arrived at that statement based on your OP and my experience I'd be happy to.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
    eJake, tshapiro and RoadRanger like this.
  17. They're talented, just not completely skilled
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
  18. Nev375


    Nov 2, 2010

    OK, sure. But the skills that they are not complete in are REQUIRED to function in a band setting.

    I don't care if they can play like Yngwie Malmsteen and Neil Peart, If they can't communicate with other human beings all you are going to have is a constant headache. (Figuratively AND literally)

    Being able to listen to others is a requirement of communication. These jackholes are too busy drowning everyone out for no practical reason whatsoever. Whatever their priorities and motivations are, they are not band oriented.
    Five String likes this.
  19. Only the future will tell. And if you read the op I'm looking for only constructive criticism, suckism doesn't really help. We'll figure it out.
    Michael Schreiber and RoadRanger like this.
  20. Johnny Crab

    Johnny Crab HELIX user & BOSE Abuser

    Feb 11, 2004
    Went to my own IEM's b/c of the guy next to me and the drummer.
    Automatically 23~25 dB's lower in MY ears.
    Hearing is too precious to lose to idiots or folks too hard-headed(or deaf) to turn down.
    Michael Schreiber likes this.
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