Help Me Choose a Tube Head

[backin82]

If you like the PF50T, you will love the V4B. Very much like a PF50T tonally, but puts out more volume and I think the extra wattage and extra tubes gives it a bit more smackdown.

As for the wooly comments about the CL, if you leave the knobs at noon it can be a little dark for some folks, but twist them around a little and you can make them sound any way you want.

Cool. Would you recommend a certain year range to seek and/or avoid when searching the used market V4 amps?

And to your last point - the weight / price are the main reasons for not doing a CL. It's just not worth it for me. 40 lbs is doable. 80....F that.

 

[bucephylus]

I live in a city with woefully poor selections of good gear. We have GC, some small mom and pops that only carry Peavey stuff, and a tiny shop that only carries boutique amps (read: out of my price range).

I'm looking for an "all-tube" head for practice and smaller gigs. As such, it does NOT need to be crazy powerful. This will be my first all-tube head, and my budget is around $800.

The options I've seen on the used market (within my budget) include:
Fender 100T [6L6]
Ampeg V4 [6L6]
Traynor YBA200 [KT88]
Eden WTB300 [KT88]
Ampeg PF50T [6L6]
Ashdown CTM100 [KT88]

Of these, I've played the PF50T. I've also played all the Mesa tube heads, and of course a CL. That's it. That's my all-tube experience. My only takeaways are that the CL sounds too wooly or fluffy, the Mesa stuff all sounds too sterile and dry. The PF50T *almost* gets the tone I want - certainly a little better than the CL for my tastes. I've also been playing a GK MB212 combo that I LOVE, but it isn't warm. If there's something that can get in the ballpark of the GK sound and have tube warmth - that's what I want.

I play mostly non-aggressive styles like funk, jazz, pop, gospel, blues, etc.....so any overdriven sound is a very low priority for me. I'll get overdrive with effects if I ever need to go down that road for a cover song.

So.......based on my limited experience, local availability, and budget.....which amp should I try to acquire?

By “CL,” do you mean the SVT CL or the Micro CL? I assume you mean the SVT CL(?); but, I have a really hard time considering that head “wooly.” So, perhaps, I am missing something.

As far as the V4B goes, I only played through one of those one time, and just thought it was Ok. I’ve played on the SVT CL many more times, and really think that’s an excellent head.

 

[rodl2005]

By “CL,” do you mean the SVT CL or the Micro CL? I assume you mean the SVT CL(?); but, I have a really hard time considering that head “wooly.” So, perhaps, I am missing something.

As far as the V4B goes, I only played through one of those one time, and just thought it was Ok. I’ve played on the SVT CL many more times, and really think that’s an excellent head.

Agreed. Perhaps the SVT-CL's the OP had used weren't in the best shape or had the ultra-low engaged ???

 

[somebrains]

Aguilar Amplification AG 500 Rack mounts | eBay

 

[Joshbazz]

I’m gonna suggest taking a left turn and going for a GK 800RB.

The OP loves his GK but wants more warmth, those old GKs are WARM, sure they can get slicey as GKs do, but you can dial that back. Listen to the tone on No Doubt’s Tragic Kingdom for reference (stingray through 800RB) - fat and warm - and SS. I love tube amps, and I totally understand the comment about too wooly. I had a traynor yba300 that I loved, however not the 50lbs weight - found bliss with a Mesa subway d800 and sansamp bass driver YMMV

 

[Kevan Campbell]

It may be worth the OP’s while to consider a true tube preamp like a Le Bass Two Notes or Noble to fatten up and add some tube warmth. Noble preamps can be found used for under $800 and I believe the Two Notes costs quite a bit less.

That said, from that list I’d suggest a V4B, but make sure you have a local tech that can work well on tube amps (when I lived in OKC the tech shops were “lacking” to say the least). It might also be worth a drive down to DFW, Houston, Austin or San Antonio to check out some other gear shops?

 

[pudgychef]

I’m gonna suggest taking a left turn and going for a GK 800RB.

The OP loves his GK but wants more warmth, those old GKs are WARM, sure they can get slicey as GKs do, but you can dial that back. Listen to the tone on No Doubt’s Tragic Kingdom for reference (stingray through 800RB) - fat and warm - and SS. I love tube amps, and I totally understand the comment about too wooly. I had a traynor yba300 that I loved, however not the 50lbs weight - found bliss with a Mesa subway d800 and sansamp bass driver YMMV

Very inexpensive experiment as well. I think this is a great option as well.
For $800 you can have a mint used 800RB and a good used cab as well ..

 

[coreyfyfe]

I've probably looked at all of them. I think all or most are listed as local sales only.

So if I go V4, is there a year or range I should avoid?

Always an issue with shipping a tube amp. A lot of people don’t want to do it. The V4 are built with a shock mounted chassis and can withstand some abuse but any amp you ship I’d want to have it checked by a tech.

On the vintage amps, the pre-75 amps are the more desirable look but the circuit didn’t change much on the standard models through the 70s. The distortion model amps are different and not as well regarded.

As I said above if I were in the market I’d probably go for the reissue over the vintage amp, the new reissues are very close to the originals and don’t have the odd tube requirements and decades of use/abuse to deal with.

 

[MattZilla]

The distortion model amps

oh yea, the ones labeled on the front panel Ampeg V4B Distortion Model Amplifier... don't get that one.

 

[gelinas666]

Of your list and price range I'd go with the Fender 100T. Great tube tone.

 

[DaveKirkpatrick]

I know you said you want all tube, but if you like the GK sound but want some added tube-ish-ness- don't forget to check out the Fusion 550. Definitely not like an all tube amp, but it has some magic in it. Good luck in your quest!

 

[denton57]

I agree with Corey. If I was buying my first tube head and was getting my feet wet, I would probably do a Fender 100T or Reissue V4B.

However, I just picked up a Sunn 200s off the classifieds for below your budget that had all the caps replaced, three prong cord, and extra sets of power amp and PI tubes. Dead quiet, only 4 tubes (rectifier solid state), and sounds like gold. 60-65 watts, but packs a punch! I’d say with the condition and recent service/mods, this head will probably outlast any of the new tube head options. Plus, it looks so freaking cool!

I only own vintage tube heads, but I have stashes of old weird and common tubes that I’ve pulled from my many vintage amp purchases over the years...lots the odd Ampeg ones. For me, I like the old iron.

 

[armyadarkness]

If you like the PF50T, you will love the V4B. Very much like a PF50T tonally, but puts out more volume and I think the extra wattage and extra tubes gives it a bit more smackdown.

As for the wooly comments about the CL, if you leave the knobs at noon it can be a little dark for some folks, but twist them around a little and you can make them sound any way you want.

You really should check out the very long and ongoing thread posted a few days ago... Ampeg vs. Mesa and boutique tube amps...

I've been going through your same dilemma for weeks, and I finally bought A V4B, a Heritage SVT, and a Mesa Strategy, just so that I could get to the bottom of this issue.

Jimmy M steered me to the V4B and it is the BOMB! Super loud for metal, punk, and alt, and mega musical! +1 on the Tech 21 pedal.

I never understood how that thing got popular. Seems like a tone sucker to me... But it definitely has proven itself. The MXR M80 gave me a much tubier sound though.

Anyway... that thread is long, so prepare to read, but you'll learn more than you could imagine about tube amps.

V4B all the way...

 

[JimmyM]

Cool. Would you recommend a certain year range to seek and/or avoid when searching the used market V4 amps?

And to your last point - the weight / price are the main reasons for not doing a CL. It's just not worth it for me. 40 lbs is doable. 80....F that.

I don't think any of them are bad, except the Distortion model Corey was talking about. I never even knew they existed, but there you go.

There is a V4B made through the 90's and early 2000's...sometimes called the V4BH, sometimes just V4B. You can spot them because they look like the regular model SVT-CL with black faceplate and grillcloth. You may not want one of them because even though I haven't played one, I hear they're voiced like the CL. The current reissues, however, are voiced like the old ones.

 

[armyadarkness]

Curious why you want a tube amp? (This coming from a guy who uses tube amps almost exclusively!)
Sounds like what you really want tonally is what transistor amps accomplish better. Maybe? I dunno...

Yeah I'm in the same place. When I describe my tone necessities, it screams SS! But after 35 years of them, I want tubes!! lol

 

[armyadarkness]

Cool. Would you recommend a certain year range to seek and/or avoid when searching the used market V4 amps?

And to your last point - the weight / price are the main reasons for not doing a CL. It's just not worth it for me. 40 lbs is doable. 80....F that.

HELP!! How to Navigate the Ampeg vs Mesa and Boutique Amp Market

 

[GrapeBass]

I may be biased but I do LOVE my YBA200. The Resonance Control DIAL (actually adjust damping factor of o/p for speakers) really helps me set my cabinet and tune-to-the-room.

 

[coreyfyfe]

I don't think any of them are bad, except the Distortion model Corey was talking about. I never even knew they existed, but there you go.

I wouldn't say they were bad, per se, but they aren't as well regarded. The distortion circuit they added doesn't sound good but you don't have to use it. But, they were significant changes to the design on those amps, added gain stage before the tone stack, change PI design, etc.

Distortion model schematic versus standard V4. V4B has a few changes to the standard V4 circuit but not really anything significant in terms of sound. I've always just used V4 amps.

I only own vintage tube heads, but I have stashes of old weird and common tubes that I’ve pulled from my many vintage amp purchases over the years...lots the odd Ampeg ones. For me, I like the old iron.

I'm mostly in the same boat. I have a bunch of old tube amps, many from ampeg but few others in there, and have a bin of all the oddball tubes and know how to repair the amps as needed. But I've also got a more modern amp (in terms of when it was built) which is more of my gigging workhorse. Not for any real reason, it's new and it's nice, but I could (and have) happily gig with any of them.

 

[backin82]

Yeah I'm in the same place. When I describe my tone necessities, it screams SS! But after 35 years of them, I want tubes!! lol

Same. Every time I play an all-tube head in a shop, I think "THIS is the sound I want, just without all that fluffiness." It could be that I've just played through cabs that were tuned low or inherently muddy. Not sure.

I will say that I recorded an album recently where the studio had a Mesa Strategy through a Traditional Powerhouse, and I did NOT like the tone. Every Mesa head I've played through sounds "dry". Not sure the best way to describe it, but Mesa and Orange sound the same to me. Sterile and dry.

I *almost* love the Ampeg sound, but most of the time the lower frequencies just seem kinda slow to me. I want to tighten the bottom end up, but keep everything else. Again.....could be the cabs I've played through.

I once found a perfect sound - it was a PF50T through a GK NEO 410. That setup rocked, but I was just shopping around at that point and couldn't buy at the time. I may try something like that where I pair the V4B with a NEO 410 and see what happens. That said, I'm becoming a fan of the 2x12 setup for form factor. I may try to find a good vertically oriented 2x12 to use with whatever head I end up buying.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Same. Every time I play an all-tube head in a shop, I think "THIS is the sound I want, just without all that fluffiness." It could be that I've just played through cabs that were tuned low or inherently muddy. Not sure.

Try them with some sealed cabs or cabs with higher roll off. Or a high pass filter in front. Agreed on the 2x12 form factor though, I've gone to using either a pair of the ampeg 112AV or a custom made 2x12. The 112AV cabs are ported but tuned higher like a sealed cab. Running those with a solid state head I always find them a little lacking in the lows, but with a tube head they're perfect.