Help me fantasize about my next rig

[Sparkl]

RMS is definitely the wrong measuring stick if you're looking to compare cab capabilities - either published max SPL or displacement are much better indicators.

Ampeg 810 published max SPL: 130dB
Big Twin 2 published max SPL: 133dB

Note: while that's a significant difference, given that's max SPL, that will require the maximum usable wattage being pumped into the cab for it to be realized - that's really where RMS comes into play. The Big Twin, per Barefaced, can get louder than the 810, but as far as I can tell, it'd take double the amp to do it.

Also, as far as the issue of dynamics, it's not possible for me to argue with your completely valid perceptions, but I don't believe that there is a technical reason why increased excursion would necessarily lead to decreased dynamics to the best of my knowledge (which is admittedly limited). There is at least one other thread that I seem to recall reading recently discussing these elements that went into greater detail from an engineering perspective; I'll see if I might be able to dig one up as a reference.

Thank you for correcting me.

As stated, I have very limited engineering knowledge so my terminology might be impaired as you can see.

I am not aware of any physical limitations of excursions or displacement, what I can do is only report my findings by having thoroughly tested all previously mentioned gear.

It might be true that the BT2 is in fact twice as loud as the Ampegs 810 with a more powerful amp. I haven't tested that out so can't say. What I can definitely say is that while using the same amp, the 810 definitely got way thicker and seemed to moved more air (at least sonically to my ears) than the BT2 did. Hard to describe really, best way of describing it would be that the 810 sounded huge as an 810 would while the 2x12 sounded like a 2x12 respectively. Also the 810 had a greater dynamic range or as I would explain, it was smoother when transitioning from quiet to full attack notes. I also had extremely similar results when comparing the BT2 with my now owned Aguilar DB410, previously owned SWR Goliath Sr. 610 and even the relative crappy Hartke 4.5 XL so we might have something here. I have to really emphasize the fact that I am here only speaking on behalf of sonic perception, not relying on technical facts etc. It is worth saying that to the musician sonic perception > technical specification so that definitely plays a big role in this industry.

And between the DB410 and ampeg 810 I can again say, that the 810 sounds like double the DB410 regardless the Watt figures and all that. OTOH a 2x DB410 would certainly smack the ampeg 810 volume wise and I also slightly more prefer Aguilars voicing but that is irrelevant in this case.

 

[el murdoque]

First of all - you are not going to get the sound of an Aggie GS on a fearless cab. Totally different things, Fearless cabs are basically bass PA cabs, as much as Barefaced 12 series.

If you want to get the punch of a GS or DB cab and try to keep it lightweight you should look into Barefaced 10 series which lack the tweeter (which you don't need) but pack ceramic speakers and are more vintage voiced. Haven't tried them myself but I guess this should be it. I have also tried the SL cabs and they don't come even remotely close to the warmth and punch my DB410 has.

Second - if you compare fearless or barefaced 12 cabs with your GS 12 cabs then yes, they will probably disperse the sound a bit more due to their pro-active dispersion speaker and cab design but I would bet that it won't be that noticable. I noticed a big difference in dispersion while owning my Bareface BT2 cab but mostly because I otherwise exclusively own 410/210 cabs and there the difference in dispersion obviously shows up.

Then again, every single stacked driver will have somewhat of a nice dispersion, plenty enough for gigging use. Horizontal dispersion isn't that much of a problem than vertical dispersion is and honestly, I haven't heard myself much better with these cabs in this aspect as with my usual 410s. So positioning your cab right is still very much a thing for vertical dispersion.

Third - yes, loudness wise, a single fearless or barefaced 12 can match the output of most other 2x12 cabs but it won't meet the beefiness of the sound, its mid freq harmonics and dynamic feedback. The single cone has to travel more to compensate for otherwise two drivers meaning they won't be that smooth and transitional between a piano and forte note.

Forgive me for potentionally wrong use of terminology, I am not an engineer so I try to describe what i hear the best I can. Also, as a musician, I have a pretty good ear for what I want to hear and to me, these hyper cabs propose a compromise - a compromise between loudness and footprint.

An Ampeg 810 for example has half the rated RMS of a Barefaced big Twin 2 (2x12 + tweeter 1600W RMS) yet there is no doubt that an 810 will sound WAY beefier and fatter than the 2x12 option. OTOH you will need a truck for the 810 while you only need a sports wagon for the 2x12.

My verdict is - Imagine the fearless cab being a high quality monitor but that's it - very flat and even response, you will hear a lot of details in your bass sound you have never ever heard before but with zero drama.

I can not speak for the single 12 aggies, but I owned a pair of gs212 cabs. I replaced these with barefaced single 12 cabs. Thinking that the aggies are built with top notch components, I did not believe their claims, and bought one bf cab first.
When I checked that out with a switchable a/b test setup with identical 500w power amps, I found that both cabs are able to take the full load without farting out, but when I approached full power, the tiny barefaced can had a bit more lowend while on the aggie the lows had problems keeping up with the overall loudness.
When I tried the bf stack In the only environment I have had the need of 4x12 with the aggie cabs I found that the bf cabs are more evenly voiced while the aggies have their own sound. I dialed a bit back on the mids and cut a bit of my boosted bass and found that the 212 barefaced stack was sitting more evenly in the mix and packing an immense punch in the upper bass / lowest mids region that is as much heard as it is felt in the gut.
Keeping up with the stupid loud guitars was no problem and after the rehearsal the drummer refused to believe that I was not on the PA. He liked my new setup a lot because the bass was more audible for him and easier to distinguish from the guitars.
For me, the transition was an easy thing. I use very little horn on either of the cabs and just had to modify my eq settings a little to compensate for the flat response of the new cabs.

So for me, a single 12 supercab replaced a top notch 212 and I lost not a single bit of loudness or heft.

 

[Sparkl]

I can not speak for the single 12 aggies, but I owned a pair of gs212 cabs. I replaced these with barefaced single 12 cabs. Thinking that the aggies are built with top notch components, I did not believe their claims, and bought one bf cab first.
When I checked that out with a switchable a/b test setup with identical 500w power amps, I found that both cabs are able to take the full load without farting out, but when I approached full power, the tiny barefaced can had a bit more lowend while on the aggie the lows had problems keeping up with the overall loudness.
When I tried the bf stack In the only environment I have had the need of 4x12 with the aggie cabs I found that the bf cabs are more evenly voiced while the aggies have their own sound. I dialed a bit back on the mids and cut a bit of my boosted bass and found that the 212 barefaced stack was sitting more evenly in the mix and packing an immense punch in the upper bass / lowest mids region that is as much heard as it is felt in the gut.
Keeping up with the stupid loud guitars was no problem and after the rehearsal the drummer refused to believe that I was not on the PA. He liked my new setup a lot because the bass was more audible for him and easier to distinguish from the guitars.
For me, the transition was an easy thing. I use very little horn on either of the cabs and just had to modify my eq settings a little to compensate for the flat response of the new cabs.

So for me, a single 12 supercab replaced a top notch 212 and I lost not a single bit of loudness or heft.

I am honestly glad that it worked out for you!

I wish I had the same results, for some reason my DB410 outpunches the BT2 both in punch and warmth. I guess it really is about the nature of voicing, the Db410 must have been voiced ina way that it punches at certain frequences just the way I want it too. I always found the 12 line of BF or Fearless a bit dull sounding but this is just me, obviously very leaned towards nicely mid voiced warm gear.

After all, I am not kidding when I say, that I too would like to have a small and light cab for most of my gigs and not hauling the uber heavy DB410 but such is life I guess. The first lightweight cab that will cop the DB410 vibe and tone will definitely be on my list!

I have already spoken to Alex Claber about this and expressed my interest into their 10 inch series, the only problem is that these cabs are lacking a tweeter I actually need a lot especially for slap intensive tunes and unfortunatelly, Barefaced doesn't currently have a plan of releasing tweetered 10 inch series which I deeply regret.

I might be ordering a Vanderkley option for smaller gigs, I wonder how that may sound. I already tried Vanderkley 12 and it sounds pretty good, not sure about the 10 inch options though.

 

[Jim Carr]

First of all - you are not going to get the sound of an Aggie GS on a fearless cab. Totally different things, Fearless cabs are basically bass PA cabs, as much as Barefaced 12 series....
...Imagine the fearless cab being a high quality monitor but that's it - very flat and even response, you will hear a lot of details in your bass sound you have never ever heard before but with zero drama.

Except that the 3012LF and 3015LF equipped full-range fEARful and Fearless are much better than 95% of PA cabs, especially in delivering clean lows at high volumes.

 

[Jim Carr]

...I can definitely say is that while using the same amp, the 810 definitely got way thicker and seemed to moved more air (at least sonically to my ears) than the BT2 did...

As you no doubt know, the 810 and other n10 cabinets you refer to have a huge built-in low-mid bump. That is how they are voiced. If you want that and only that, and you like heavy cabs—you are all set. If you want a huge low-mid bump, but only for today, you can have it with the BT2 or a fEARful 1212/6/1. It requires EQ and power, but you can have it. I know, because I do it when ever I want it.

 

[Father Gino]

Here’s a reply from a Fearless producer:

The Fearless F112 is certainly the most popular cab. If you go with the lightweight wood and no tweeter, the weight is probably about 33lbs or so. Given enough power, it can certainly get pretty loud. The alternative is the F115 which will be 3dB louder for the same power but also about 12-15 lbs heavier (and larger in size). It's hard to judge volume comparisons of the F112 vs. a pair of SL cabs. The F112 will sound more full and will give you more clean SPL, but a pair of SL cabs will be more sensitive at low power.

Thank you,

Don