Help me fantasize about my next rig

[Father Gino]

I play out mostly in small to medium sized clubs. My main amp is a Streamliner 800. I used to use two Aguilar GS 112s which I liked (described as the best small single 15s on the market). I have no need for no stinkin’ tweeter. I now use two Aguilar SL 112s. They do the job but they don’t have the beef/presence of the GS cabs. I like the GS cabs better but every time I pick up the SL cabs, I love them so much! My feet are nightmarishly messed up.

I’ve thought about getting a third SL and an amp that could run that load but that seems little better than simply going back to the GSs.

What’s with these fearless single 12” cabs? Are they really that magical? Could one of those really replace two 12s? Really? I noticed that Ed said one was great but he wants a second one. Do they really disperse the sound that much better that I would say “wow!, this is better than my two GS cabs?” Ditto for the Genzler cabs with the tweeter-less arrays.

This is all pure fantasy at this point, but a growing boy needs fantasies does he not? And who knows, maybe I’ll sell that pesky 4003 (so I can regret it again) and free up some $$$.

 

[Kro]

What’s with these fearless single 12” cabs?

They're magical, that's what.

Are they really that magical?

Oh... awkward, but still yes, though magic really has nothing to do with it - just top-level components paired with top-level engineering and construction.

Could one of those really replace two 12s?

Probably. Before I pulled the trigger on my F115, I compared my then current rig of two GK Neo 112-iis against a single F112. Mind you, I wasn't going for an all-out volume test, but the F112 had considerably more low-end available on-tap naturally even at moderate volumes - something that I wasn't able to coax out of my Neo 112s at-volume no matter how hard I tried without them farting (my moderate volume might be your loud volume). I do feel that comparison speaks to the capabilities of the F112.

Really?

Yup.

I noticed that Ed said one was great but he wants a second one.

Probably like I want a second F115, or a Barefaced Eight 10.

Do they really disperse the sound that much better that I would say “wow!, this is better than my two GS cabs?”

I believe they do, though IMO that dispersion can off come off as bit harsh if you're used to always hearing what your cab with less even dispersion sounds like off-axis (standing above/off to the side). Nothing that EQ wouldn't fix, and it'd probably be for the benefit of everybody running it that way, as at least that way you're not just blasting the goosed higher frequencies (for you off axis) at some poor soul directly in the line of fire of the potential beaming.

I have no need for no stinkin’ tweeter.

About that. I pretty much always run mine either with the tweeter off, or with high frequencies above 5k attenuated from some other method like the low-pass from the speaker emulation function of my VTDI. However, given that my F115 is meant to be my "forever" cab, who knows, maybe the tweeter will come in handy years down the road when I decide I want to form a Marcus Miller tribute ensemble.

 

[BadExample]

My main amp is a Streamliner 800.

You might want to have Andy service that old beast. It seems to have lost 100 Watts somewhere

Sorry to hear about your feet

 

[Father Gino]

800, 900, whatever. The bigger one

 

[JRA]

a stinking tweeter is often what gives a cabinet 'the presence' you say you are looking for. something to keep in mind. good luck!

 

[mmbongo]

Add AudioKinesis cabs to your search. Now THOSE are magical!

 

[Wicked G]

You might want to have Andy service that old beast. It seems to have lost 100 Watts somewhere

Sorry to hear about your feet

Lol!!!
I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Father Gino]

Add AudioKinesis cabs to your search. Now THOSE are magical!

You are right my friend. A pair of 1203s sound like just the ticket! I don’t think these existed when I bought my SL112s. I read a long review online from a guy who’s previous favorite smallish speakers were Aggie GS 112s. And they cost about the same! I read some stuff here about them and the only negative comments (quite a few actually) were about the aesthetics of the speaker grills. They’re @#$fg! Speakers for God’s sake! They’re black and they make noise. What more would I want?

And they don’t have no stinking tweeters!!!

 

[Downunderwonder]

''Oh, hello!" cue music
Boom chicka wow wow,
Jigga shikka shikka, <loop>

Yeah baby, little uber cabs hit with big watts rock your world.

 

[xnewyorka]

Barefaced super twin?

 

[Pbassmanca]

2 Mesa Subway 112's or a Subway 115 and 112 would give you the beef, while sounding amazing and lightweight.

 

[Jim Carr]

...What’s with these fearless single 12” cabs? Are they really that magical? Could one of those really replace two 12s? Really? I noticed that Ed said one was great but he wants a second one. Do they really disperse the sound that much better that I would say “wow!, this is better than my two GS cabs?”...

Once I started using fEARful cabs, my exquisite Epifani UL1410 and UL1210 sat in the garage. Sold them.

A 12/6/1 fEArful is very very similar to a Fearless112, having the same 3012LF and similar/same mid and high drivers (in most cases). The crossovers are different, and the Fearless cabinets have a nice tilt back feature and are even lighter. That said, I think I can fairly comment on the capability of a 112 "fear-type" cabinet. Yes, magical-ish. I can get more tones and volume out of a 12/6/1 than any 210, 115, or 112 I've ever used. Having a 1212/6/1 makes it more than any 410 I've ever used. Then again, I don't need to be that loud most of the time.

Never-the-less, I find a 1212/6/1 fEARful very easy to move and able to cover 90% of what I need—so yes, two 112 Fearless might be the way to go, unless you just get a 212.

You probably ought to try just one, first.

 

[arbiterusa]

Thread title icks me out more than a little. Phrasing!

 

[Kro]

You probably ought to try just one, first.

Honestly, this is really the only way to go - are you within a few hours of a builder by any chance where you might be able to demo the cabs against yours?

 

[MDBass]

I play out mostly in small to medium sized clubs. My main amp is a Streamliner 800. I used to use two Aguilar GS 112s which I liked (described as the best small single 15s on the market). I have no need for no stinkin’ tweeter. I now use two Aguilar SL 112s. They do the job but they don’t have the beef/presence of the GS cabs. I like the GS cabs better but every time I pick up the SL cabs, I love them so much! My feet are nightmarishly messed up.

I’ve thought about getting a third SL and an amp that could run that load but that seems little better than simply going back to the GSs.

What’s with these fearless single 12” cabs? Are they really that magical? Could one of those really replace two 12s? Really? I noticed that Ed said one was great but he wants a second one. Do they really disperse the sound that much better that I would say “wow!, this is better than my two GS cabs?” Ditto for the Genzler cabs with the tweeter-less arrays.

This is all pure fantasy at this point, but a growing boy needs fantasies does he not? And who knows, maybe I’ll sell that pesky 4003 (so I can regret it again) and free up some $$$.

As someone who has played through all of them: a Fearless/Audiokinesis/Barefaced 12 absolutely wipes the floor with the SL112, both in terms of “beef” and volume.

The Genzler cabs are a cut above the SL112’s as well, but the other three are two cuts above

 

[Father Gino]

So many new choices that didn’t exist 5 years ago. My SLs were the first cabs so lite that I was aware of. They’ve served me well but they did kinda fart out on a gig recently. Maybe they’re wearing out.

I could easily be wrong but I just can’t believe that any single 12 cab is gonna cut it over a loud drummer no matter how magical. Two of the fearless 12s would just be too expensive. A 15 or a 2 x 12 might do it but then there are the occasional stairs involved.

The bearfaced cabs involve too much international intrigue.

The Mesas are too heavy.

No I think the 1203 x 2 is the fantasy. I like the idea of the very vertical stacking. I like the idea of the plugable ports. I could never “try them out”, I’d have to have them for a few gigs to really know what they’re all about. I doubt that any of these cabs would be bad.

Maybe that pesky 4003 has to go.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I did this...

 

[Sparkl]

I play out mostly in small to medium sized clubs. My main amp is a Streamliner 800. I used to use two Aguilar GS 112s which I liked (described as the best small single 15s on the market). I have no need for no stinkin’ tweeter. I now use two Aguilar SL 112s. They do the job but they don’t have the beef/presence of the GS cabs. I like the GS cabs better but every time I pick up the SL cabs, I love them so much! My feet are nightmarishly messed up.

I’ve thought about getting a third SL and an amp that could run that load but that seems little better than simply going back to the GSs.

What’s with these fearless single 12” cabs? Are they really that magical? Could one of those really replace two 12s? Really? I noticed that Ed said one was great but he wants a second one. Do they really disperse the sound that much better that I would say “wow!, this is better than my two GS cabs?” Ditto for the Genzler cabs with the tweeter-less arrays.

This is all pure fantasy at this point, but a growing boy needs fantasies does he not? And who knows, maybe I’ll sell that pesky 4003 (so I can regret it again) and free up some $$$.

First of all - you are not going to get the sound of an Aggie GS on a fearless cab. Totally different things, Fearless cabs are basically bass PA cabs, as much as Barefaced 12 series.

If you want to get the punch of a GS or DB cab and try to keep it lightweight you should look into Barefaced 10 series which lack the tweeter (which you don't need) but pack ceramic speakers and are more vintage voiced. Haven't tried them myself but I guess this should be it. I have also tried the SL cabs and they don't come even remotely close to the warmth and punch my DB410 has.

Second - if you compare fearless or barefaced 12 cabs with your GS 12 cabs then yes, they will probably disperse the sound a bit more due to their pro-active dispersion speaker and cab design but I would bet that it won't be that noticable. I noticed a big difference in dispersion while owning my Bareface BT2 cab but mostly because I otherwise exclusively own 410/210 cabs and there the difference in dispersion obviously shows up.

Then again, every single stacked driver will have somewhat of a nice dispersion, plenty enough for gigging use. Horizontal dispersion isn't that much of a problem than vertical dispersion is and honestly, I haven't heard myself much better with these cabs in this aspect as with my usual 410s. So positioning your cab right is still very much a thing for vertical dispersion.

Third - yes, loudness wise, a single fearless or barefaced 12 can match the output of most other 2x12 cabs but it won't meet the beefiness of the sound, its mid freq harmonics and dynamic feedback. The single cone has to travel more to compensate for otherwise two drivers meaning they won't be that smooth and transitional between a piano and forte note.

Forgive me for potentionally wrong use of terminology, I am not an engineer so I try to describe what i hear the best I can. Also, as a musician, I have a pretty good ear for what I want to hear and to me, these hyper cabs propose a compromise - a compromise between loudness and footprint.

An Ampeg 810 for example has half the rated RMS of a Barefaced big Twin 2 (2x12 + tweeter 1600W RMS) yet there is no doubt that an 810 will sound WAY beefier and fatter than the 2x12 option. OTOH you will need a truck for the 810 while you only need a sports wagon for the 2x12.

My verdict is - Imagine the fearless cab being a high quality monitor but that's it - very flat and even response, you will hear a lot of details in your bass sound you have never ever heard before but with zero drama.

 

[nilorius]

Get - Tone hammer 500

 

[Kro]

An Ampeg 810 for example has half the rated RMS of a Barefaced big Twin 2 (2x12 + tweeter 1600W RMS) yet there is no doubt that an 810 will sound WAY beefier and fatter than the 2x12 option.

RMS is definitely the wrong measuring stick if you're looking to compare cab capabilities - either published max SPL or displacement are much better indicators.

Ampeg 810 published max SPL: 130dB
Big Twin 2 published max SPL*: 133dB
*Barefaced apparently uses slightly different measuing parameters for their max SPL models that allegedly lead to slightly higher values. Not judging right or wrong here, but I feel that this merits a mention.

While that's a significant difference, given that's max SPL, that will require the maximum usable wattage being pumped into the cab for it to be realized - that's really where RMS comes into play. The Big Twin, per Barefaced, can get louder than the 810, but as far as I can tell, it'd take double the amp to do it.

Also, as far as the issue of dynamics, it's not possible for me to argue with your completely valid perceptions, but I don't believe that there is a technical reason why increased excursion would necessarily lead to decreased dynamics to the best of my knowledge (which is admittedly limited). There is at least one other thread that I seem to recall reading recently discussing these elements that went into greater detail from an engineering perspective; I'll see if I might be able to dig one up as a reference.