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Help me finish my polystyrene cab build

#301
mrjim123 said:
In the early to mid 1970's I owned a pair of EV 15" speakers. I then had zero knowledge of audio science (now I know just enough to be dangerous ;)), but I had read something that convinced me to build a pair of folded horn cabinets, one for each speaker. Actually my dad built them to spec from plans that I believe I ordered from a catalog.

When I played my bass through them the first time I was SO disappointed. They were boomy, muddy, and they had no high end whatsoever; heck, I don't even think they had any mids to speak of. They lasted all of one gig. The speakers ended up going back into the dual 15" bass reflex (EV design) cabinet they had come out of.
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This is exactly the challenge with all folded horn designs unfortunately. Everything is a trade-off in order to maximize sensitivity.
 
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#304
mrjim123 said:
In the early to mid 1970's I owned a pair of EV 15" speakers. I then had zero knowledge of audio science (now I know just enough to be dangerous ;)), but I had read something that convinced me to build a pair of folded horn cabinets, one for each speaker. Actually my dad built them to spec from plans that I believe I ordered from a catalog.

When I played my bass through them the first time I was SO disappointed. They were boomy, muddy, and they had no high end whatsoever; heck, I don't even think they had any mids to speak of. They lasted all of one gig. The speakers ended up going back into the dual 15" bass reflex (EV design) cabinet they had come out of.
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Here’s my science experiment:

• plug Ric 4001 into Acoustic 370
• ACC 370 into Sunn 1/18 VH.

Turn Ric volume : Full
Tones on full T
•Volume on 370: 2.5

Let someone else sit in

Go to far side of club and ask wife if you sound that loud

Next set turn down to 2.0

I never had Any issues hearing cab on stage and even louder off stage .

No boominess and no loss of highs up to high D# on G string. Full fidelity sound and response ; flawless . Only drawback is weight , but that’s only with set up and transport. I was young in them daze!

Hey... this ain’t my thread ; belongs to our absent OP !

Still fun tho!
 
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#305
agedhorse said:
This is exactly the challenge with all folded horn designs unfortunately. Everything is a trade-off in order to maximize sensitivity.
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I'm intrigued / surprised by this.

Did gains in sensitivity somehow trump everyone's critical faculties, with regards to tonality?

It used to be that folded horns were everywhere, and widely accepted. Was everyone deaf to their shortcomings / willing to accept the trade off for sensitivity over sound quality / or was that particular tonality desirable at the time, and has subsequently gone out of fashion?


I have a gargantuan folded horn cabinet (that admittedly I haven't used in close to 20 years), that used to form part of one of my bass rigs.

I remember (for how reliable that is) it sounding absolutely awesome, particularly when the other bass player in my band would sometimes borrow it, with his amp.

I've no idea who it was made by, but it does have an enormous HF horn, with a 3 way attenuator, and a couple of tweeters - so that probably accounts for its rich character.

I do remember noticing in about 2010 - as if almost overnight - every FOH system suddenly sounded amazing.

I don't know if that's because everyone ditched folded horns (wasn't really seeing them anymore), a greater reliance on IEM, or better sub systems - probably the cumulative effect of all of the above.

Or was there some overnight, seismic change in the industry around that time? (almost nobody was going amp-less at that point, so I'd rule that out).
 
#306
Limited bandwidth is overcome by crossovers and multiple speakers. A three or four way horn loaded system could sound good, but would be massive if designed properly. A folded bass horn is going to sound not much better than a sub. I think a horn can control 3 octaves if I remember correctly. That's not a lot of bandwidth.
 
#309
agedhorse said:
Since the (real world) performance of folded horn speakers for bass guitar have fallen out of favor for a lot of good reasons (outliers excluded), expending such time, energy and money into such a project would have an extremely limited appeal. You could probably knock off maybe 20 pounds and retain the (mediocre) performance but you would still have the size to contend with, and this is one of the major stumbling blocks for most players.

I know, I know, there are a few of you who don't see any limitations with the folded horn designs, fortunately for you there are many available used for the cost of hauling off. I removed some from an installation a while back, I couldn't even give the cabinets away and ended up running them all through the chipper/shredder at the recycling center.

If you don't care about low frequency extension, and you don't care about midrange clarity/voicing, if your only concern is sensitivity, then these are the ideal cabinets for you. They are sensitive over a fairly narrow bandwidth, which is exactly what makes them a poor candidate for most (I didn't say all) players.
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Responded to this in another forum ; wish I could find “ free horn cabs” in Atlanta!

If I haven’t edited it out; I believe I put “ now accepting donation of ACC 301 or 408”

Still enjoying the banter !
 
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#310
OK. I had to dedicate all my energy to school for a while. They were going to take away my freeschool money. I also passed physics II with an A- at Umass Boston so can describe the stuff a little better.

It performs best under coupling with a mas. I put 110 or so pounds of lifting weights on top of the cab on a board with a nonresonant layer between it and the board. I placed the cab on a wooden floor with no rugs.

I believe that the cab acoustically couples with the floor proportionally to the mass I loaded it with.

I wanna get some heavier weights and a take it to something like a wooden stage or concert hall and see how well it works at volume.
 
#315
I expected something like this all along. It seems like basic Newtonian physics that the driver needs something with mass to "push" against in order to function; otherwise, the cab is going to oscillate along with the driver and absorb/dampen the biggest part of the speaker's motion.

It does sort of remind me of those weights they sell for audiophiles to put on top of their speakers. Some folks claim they work...maybe their effectiveness is inversely proportional to the speaker system's inherent mass.
 
#316
Well ordinary speakers are designed, as Downunders says, not to do that, so adding weight to a design like that is pointless. They will "ideally" remain rigid regardless and resist all mechanical coupling. This cabinet is exactly the opposite of that.
 
#318
Yes the outcome was predicted. Having said that Neal, you put a lot of thought and work into this project and definitely did not waste your time. The experience gained (and the constuctive advice in this thread) will get put to good use in the future Im certain. Its refreshing to see someone dare to think "outside of the box" (ka ching)!

Undeniably mass plays a role but also consider enclosure stiffness as well, by adding the mass on top and a rigid constraint to the bottom you created stiffer planes.

Im not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread but there are some successful composite builds out there in TB land if you search. This is a good one: Composite speaker cab build No2 - 2x12 there are others.

Cheers and congrats on your physics II pass!
 

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