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Help me love frets..

#61
" sampled piano keyboard ", do you means Kronos montage ?

Your situation like old school manual gear driver can't drive dual clutch AT car.

I suggest just keep play fretless bass, your question should ask while Leo fender still alive.

Hope help.
MuseChaser said:
I've been playing fretless most of my bass-playing life, and played string bass first. My formal schooling and degrees are in violin performance, and piano and violin were my first instruments of serious study, beginning at ages 5 and 8, respectively.

Picked up a fretted Peavey Grind5 a month or so ago as my first fretted bass to see what I've been missing, and have been dutifully practicing with it daily, but I confess I don't get it. It's kind of the way I feel when I have to play a sampled grand piano keyboard instead of a real beautiful concert grand piano; yes, it can work, and yes, it's always in tune, but it's just not as ... Flexible? Expressive? Not sure how to say it.. just like somebody took away some valued tools.

What are the plusses to frets, other than making percussive slapping easier and more effective?

Honest question... Not putting down or flaming/trolling fretters...
Click to expand...
 
#62
JRA said:
frets --- why bother? :D and you sure don't sound too enthused about the venture. :laugh: :roflmao: there are tons of TB members who only play fretless instruments, so that in itself = big whup! ;)

but what kind of 'space' are you occupying that you picked up an ax "to see what you've been missing" and want to continue when it only brings you frustration? :wideyed: :rollno:

i'd advise that you skip the :poop: you don't like and stick with the :poop: that you prefer. good luck! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

This is what I'm seeing in his responses too. Just immediately shooting everything down... So exactly, why bother.
 
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#64
I have a good musician bud who is primarily a sax player, and a highly skilled one for sure. In his main band he doubles on bass for tunes where it is required. He owns only one bass, a fretless. He always comments to me how he doesn’t understand how anyone can play frets. He has never asked to try my bass. That’s probably the only thing I have on him as a musician, but he thinks what I do is cool. Go fig’r.
 
#66
I'm new to bass but have played drums in many bands and for so many years ,.
What I hear in your question seems very simple . To me
~ You are a true Musician ~
I can't play bass yet past bar chords , smoke over water and money .
Why , if I were you even try to play a fretted instrument if you are way past that ,. I would love to simply read a neck and I only guess that is what frets are for , but if you know the neck and the chops and the fills already , why even look back .
So simple , you are a true Musician
 
#67
MrLenny1 said:
Intonation.
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Arguably, a skilled fretless player with good ears will be MORE in tune than a fretted player. I can explain if anyone's interested or doubts that....has to do with tempered tuning versus "just" intonation. I am open to all kinds of reasons for fretted basses to have benefits over fretless, including ease of being closer to correct pitches than fretless, but not being MORE in tune in the hands of a skilled player (NOT me yet, but referencing violin and one of the reasons viols with frets disappeared once music began to contain modulations).

So, yeah, OK, I DID kind of poo-poo that assertion., except that I agree frets make it much easier to come closer, especially if you don't already have a very discerning ear for pitch.
 
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#68
New2bass2 said:
I'm new to bass but have played drums in many bands and for so many years ,.
What I hear in your question seems very simple . To me
~ You are a true Musician ~
I can't play bass yet past bar chords , smoke over water and money .
Why , if I were you even try to play a fretted instrument if you are way past that ,. I would love to simply read a neck and I only guess that is what frets are for , but if you know the neck and the chops and the fills already , why even look back .
So simple , you are a true Musician
Click to expand...
Very kind of you, but I truly don't see frets as a "crutch," or fretless players as superior in any way. I am an admitted snob in terms of musical genres (if music needs to be loud to be good, it ain't good in the first place.....but that's my opinion and that's ALL it is), but not at all in terms of fretting over frets.... ;)

I really want to learn to capitalize on and appreciate the positives of frets.
 
#69
Again , it is the musicianship I hear in you .
I was a drummer and my thing was always slow it down , play the song as it was intended and written and most music is way slowing in the studio that it is in performance. Loud was always over rated to me along with speed . The best bands have a low stage volume in my opinion.
I thought frets were simply instructions to follow intill you know enough to play fretless and them add more feel and expression with a fretless,.
Just my opinion
 
#70
Intonation is the only real plus of frets and given you history with fretless, I don't think you would need frets for intonation. My music education is similar with a major on trumpet and a minor on upright. I switched to frets when slapping became popular. I still have a fretless but don't play it much as I'm the lead singer in the band I'm presently in and just don't want to have to worry about intonation.
 
#71
It's a different sort of electric bass, which has many interesting sounds available from the frets themselves. If neither these sounds or the multitude of songs that employ them suit your fancy, you can happily keep playing fretless. No need to apologize for liking what you like, nor forcing oneself to meet an "accepted" bass player standard.

I am a classical violinist myself, and can very well play in tune after years of training-do not have any fretless bass, nor plan to do so, because the unique and wonderful sounds of fretless bass are not those I seek for my playing. In my humble opinion, definitely not a matter of what is "best", or who are the "true musicians". All are musicians to me (I despise looking down on those who aren't traditional or classical enough-I feel it alienates many from the wonderful world of classical music appreciation-this is not you, OP, just a general comment.) I love the sounds and "limitations" of an ol', fretted, 4 string bass-pure love for its music. Do not feel any less for preferring it, and do not even sight read music for electric bass, even though I do so for violin. Am I a real musician?
 
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#72
My only thought about a True musician was that frets are like brail when learning how to read a neck .
Fretless seems to have more feeling in it . Like a chello, or double bass ,. I couldn't find a c in a C house on a big instrument .
Am I a musician
 
#73
MuseChaser said:
I've been playing fretless most of my bass-playing life, and played string bass first. My formal schooling and degrees are in violin performance, and piano and violin were my first instruments of serious study, beginning at ages 5 and 8, respectively.

Picked up a fretted Peavey Grind5 a month or so ago as my first fretted bass to see what I've been missing, and have been dutifully practicing with it daily, but I confess I don't get it. It's kind of the way I feel when I have to play a sampled grand piano keyboard instead of a real beautiful concert grand piano; yes, it can work, and yes, it's always in tune, but it's just not as ... Flexible? Expressive? Not sure how to say it.. just like somebody took away some valued tools.

What are the plusses to frets, other than making percussive slapping easier and more effective?

Honest question... Not putting down or flaming/trolling fretters...
Click to expand...
An electric fretted bass is only a cousin of the double bass. It is like comparing a Wagnerian opra with a Rogers and Hammerstein musical. Or a Big Mac with KFC. Don’t expect one to be much like the other despite some similarities.
 
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#75
I love my fretted basses and I also love my fretless basses. Watch me fret over which type of bass to gig with on any particular Saturday afternoon (pun intended).
There's no rhyme or reason to it, sometimes I feel like a nut...
Sometimes I don't.
 
#76
MuseChaser said:
I really want to learn to capitalize on and appreciate the positives of frets.
Click to expand...
Do you even like the sound of a fretted bass? If so, go for it. It is obviously a very different sound than a fretless.
Or, do you need one professionally? If yes, then go for it. For example I don't currently own a fretless and am not terribly interested in them currently (have had several in the past) but if I needed one for work I'd sure as heck get another. I just never get asked for that sound these days, but ya never know.

Otherwise, in your particular case, why bother?
 
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#77
MuseChaser said:
I am an admitted snob in terms of musical genres (if music needs to be loud to be good, it ain't good in the first place.....
Click to expand...

I think that right there is most likely going to be a big factor for you. Most of the genres where you really want that fretted clank are also genres where loud is part of the deal. So what is sonically one of the "features" of frets may be more of a bug in your case. Nothing wrong with that. Find the right tool for the job, and maybe fretted isn't the right tool for the jobs you want.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you're going in with an open mind and a desire to put in work to better understand what you're missing—the world most definitely needs a lot more of that!—but it may also be the case that it's just not for you.

I think one of the other "features" for fretted that has been mentioned here (chords) isn't really all that strong a feature. Before I actually started to learn to play, I kind of wondered why most bassists don't play chords very often. Then I tried it, and realized that on most of the fretboard, they don't sound very good. (I know, duh. I obviously didn't come in with prior musical training.) Anyway, where they do is in what is generally considered more guitar territory anyway. I don't mean to say that bassists don't or shouldn't play chords, but rather that they are at best used judiciously, so "better for chords" isn't really that big an advantage.

I'm relatively new to fretless (had one fretless for a while and just had one of the others in my stable defretted) but I definitely see the appeal of fretless, and the further I go, the less I see the advantages of fretted. Honestly I think the biggest advantages fretted has is that it's easier to play—which probably isn't an issue for you—and the clank, which is best when it's loud anyway.
 
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#78
I'm in the same boat, having started on cello before picking up electric bass. I've never been able to make frets work for me. With that said, maybe practicing would help. ;) So the real problem is simply not being motivated to master the fretted bass.

I think from a listener standpoint, fretted vs fretless is like French vs German bow, or upright vs electric: Every time I think one is "better," I hear someone playing the other one, and am blown away. So you can clearly get to where people are blown away by your playing, on any instrument.

What I decided was that mastering the fretted board was nowhere near the top of the list of areas where I can improve my playing, and that I'll probably get through the rest of my "career" without regrets about it. On the other hand, if I were advising a young player, I'd tell them to make the effort and master the fretted bass. It provides a solid, consistent tone, that is the bread and butter of a lot of musical genres. And it's called the "precision" bass for a reason.
 
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