Help please with my signal chain

[StudioGC]

I'm a simple man that mostly plays a simple P bass (American Original...and sometimes a Performer PJ) through a Sansamp tech21 DI. I usually have it set to the "Bassman" configuration as that to me seems like the best tone for our 60's cover band, but I also occasionally play in another band where I need more options for tone since we cover more modern tunes.

No amp, just direct to our X32 mixer and then to the FOH as we use IEM's.

The more tech savvy in the band, especially the guitarist who does our mixing says I need more compression and my sound is kind of boomy and not very articulate.

He's recommending a Helix Stomp so I can have all the effects, compression, amp choices all in one.

Now, I'm not a complete doofus when it comes to tech, but I do like to keep things simple and the Helix seems WAY too much for what I need.

Anyone care to elaborate on what their signal chain is? Maybe I just need some compression? Maybe aslo a EQ pedal?

Thuoghts?

 

[Bonafide]

Cheers! All in all, yes the HELIX is very unnecessary and way beyond your needs. Additional 'amp' models and a modeled DI with cab sims would be fun and cool for some things, but in the end once you settled on a few you liked, your 'overall sound' would not be improved in the band setting over the Sansamp.

Most bass players do not need compression, there is a great deal happening by default. That said, the X32 has excellent compression and EQ in every channel. It's very good. I use a Midas 32 in the studio and love the onboard compression. It will match or exceed the Helix for your needs, it's instantly available and will be preset for each performance. If your sound is boomy on the sansamp, move the blend counterclockwise, increasing the unaffected signal. I am not a fan of the bloatyness/smeary tone the sansamp often imparts to the signal when the blend is full or boosted. Still, if you like THAT tone but need more articulation, then low cut. Use the X32 if you need to cut below 80hz (I think the Sansamp bass is about 80hz) - And boost the mids or top end a bit, to taste. Doesn't take much to clean up a bass tone.(Granted your technique is passable)

All in all every single bit you need to get a fantastic 'repeatable' bass tone you already have.

 

[Bonafide]

Another option is a class D head of your choice/flavor with a DI. DI out, post EQ to the X32. Forget the Sansamp analog 'processing' altogether. You play in a 60's cover band. My experience is well made fundamentals are far greater serving to the band and your outcome than 'more choices'. Either way, best of luck and enjoy the journey!

 

[knumbskull]

How much do you use the clean blend on the Sansamp?

 

[Zooberwerx]

I'm a simple man that mostly plays a simple P bass (American Original...and sometimes a Performer PJ) through a Sansamp tech21 DI. I usually have it set to the "Bassman" configuration as that to me seems like the best tone for our 60's cover band, but I also occasionally play in another band where I need more options for tone since we cover more modern tunes.

No amp, just direct to our X32 mixer and then to the FOH as we use IEM's.

The more tech savvy in the band, especially the guitarist who does our mixing says I need more compression and my sound is kind of boomy and not very articulate.

He's recommending a Helix Stomp so I can have all the effects, compression, amp choices all in one.

Now, I'm not a complete doofus when it comes to tech, but I do like to keep things simple and the Helix seems WAY too much for what I need.

Anyone care to elaborate on what their signal chain is? Maybe I just need some compression? Maybe aslo a EQ pedal?

Thuoghts?

I'm with you on this. Which SansAmp DI are you using? Given the constructive criticism, I'd add a budget-conscious compressor and high-pass filter (HPF) as a bare minimum. I use a SansAmp Bass Fly Rig and alternate with a Zoom B3n although both can be used together. Also consider a Tech 21 Q Strip (EQ + HPF/LPF) and separate compressor.

Riis

 

[StudioGC]

Cheers! All in all, yes the HELIX is very unnecessary and way beyond your needs. Additional 'amp' models and a modeled DI with cab sims would be fun and cool for some things, but in the end once you settled on a few you liked, your 'overall sound' would not be improved in the band setting over the Sansamp.

Most bass players do not need compression, there is a great deal happening by default. That said, the X32 has excellent compression and EQ in every channel. It's very good. I use a Midas 32 in the studio and love the onboard compression. It will match or exceed the Helix for your needs, it's instantly available and will be preset for each performance. If your sound is boomy on the sansamp, move the blend counterclockwise, increasing the unaffected signal. I am not a fan of the bloatyness/smeary tone the sansamp often imparts to the signal when the blend is full or boosted. Still, if you like THAT tone but need more articulation, then low cut. Use the X32 if you need to cut below 80hz (I think the Sansamp bass is about 80hz) - And boost the mids or top end a bit, to taste. Doesn't take much to clean up a bass tone.(Granted your technique is passable)

All in all every single bit you need to get a fantastic 'repeatable' bass tone you already have.

Thanks! Excellent points made. I've always assumed (I think correctly!) That Sansamp is a fine DI. It's all I've ever used for the 6 years I've been playing bass. I'll give those tweaks a try and see what works.

 

[StudioGC]

I'm with you on this. Which SansAmp DI are you using? Given the constructive criticism, I'd add a budget-conscious compressor and high-pass filter (HPF) as a bare minimum. I use a SansAmp Bass Fly Rig and alternate with a Zoom B3n although both can be used together. Also consider a Tech 21 Q Strip (EQ + HPF/LPF) and separate compressor.

Riis

This one....but I also have the Sansamp with three presets as well.....that I just don't use much.

The Sansamp fly is an interesting thought, but some of the reviews were less than stellar.

Maybe I need to give the fly a try myself. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Zooberwerx]

View attachment 4533922
This one....but I also have the Sansamp with three presets as well.....that I just don't use much.

The Sansamp fly is an interesting thought, but some of the reviews were less than stellar.

Maybe I need to give the fly a try myself. Thanks for the suggestions!

I would stick with my original suggestion: HPF > Compressor > either SansAmp DI. As others have suggested, use the blend sparingly (~60%) to retain articulation and minimize mud.

I have the BFR v1...I'm seeing mixed messages on the v2, as well.

Riis

 

[cheapbasslovin]

View attachment 4533922
This one....but I also have the Sansamp with three presets as well.....that I just don't use much.

The Sansamp fly is an interesting thought, but some of the reviews were less than stellar.

Maybe I need to give the fly a try myself. Thanks for the suggestions!

If your other band requires some variety, you may want to try digging out the programmable unit and trying out a few different (probably brighter) sounds to see if they do you.

The above suggestions are also all very sound (especially the HPF, IMO).

I absolutely agree that, unless someone else is going to program it for you, the Helix is too much to undertake for someone who isn't excited about getting into effects.

 

[ChickWithaRic]

Nothing wrong with the D21, it's a fine piece of equipment. I'd probably try a compressor at the FRONT of the signal chain. Compressors are going to increase your noise level just as a simple function of how they work, so you want it to be right at the start of the chain so it has the cleanest signal possible to work with. If you want a budget model to try out, I'd recommend the Kokko compressor, which is a clone of the Ross clone of the MXR. It will cost you around $30 from Mr. Bezos.

 

[StudioGC]

Nothing wrong with the D21, it's a fine piece of equipment. I'd probably try a compressor at the FRONT of the signal chain. Compressors are going to increase your noise level just as a simple function of how they work, so you want it to be right at the start of the chain so it has the cleanest signal possible to work with. If you want a budget model to try out, I'd recommend the Kokko compressor, which is a clone of the Ross clone of the MXR. It will cost you around $30 from Mr. Bezos.

Cool. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Silky Johnson]

I would stick with my original suggestion: HPF > Compressor > either SansAmp DI. As others have suggested, use the blend sparingly (~60%) to retain articulation and minimize mud.

I have the BFR v1...I'm seeing mixed messages on the v2, as well.

Riis

He's right, it's crazy how much a high pass filter with good compression can tighten up your sound giving you better tone and more useable volume too.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Cool. Thanks for the suggestion!

I wouldn't cheap-out on the compressor based on price-point only. There are a handful of decent budget-conscious offerings, even more if you have an attractive secondhand market locally. Perhaps @scubaduba could suggest a "cheap thrills" alternative. In terms of HPF's, your best bets are the Fdeck and Broughton "always on".

Edit: another option would be to snag a mid-tier multi-FX (Boss, Zoom) and set a single preset including the aforementioned HPF and comp. Seems like a bit of a waste as you'll be using .001% of its full capability but there's a method to the madness. Somewhere down the pike, you'll find the need to roll-in a chorus / flanger / delay, all of which will be readily on tap!

Riis

 

[Thumpin6string]

I agree with the posts above that recommend a comp and HPF. I run a Markbass Compressore and a Broughton HPF/LPF always on. They give me punch and articulation, but still with lots of lowend bass oomph.

 

[ChickWithaRic]

I wouldn't cheap-out on the compressor based on price-point only. There are a handful of decent budget-conscious offerings, even more if you have an attractive secondhand market locally.

I think the Kokko is the only truly recommendable and truly "cheap out" compressor going. Yes, I have one, and it does punch above its weight. It's perfectly usable to see if a compressor is for you. If it is for you, then you buy a Dynacomp M87 brand new, because used prices are pretty close to new so why not. They are really nice.

 

[Low Down Brown]

That said, the X32 has excellent compression and EQ in every channel.

Still, if you like THAT tone but need more articulation, then low cut. Use the X32 if you need to cut below 80hz (I think the Sansamp bass is about 80hz) - And boost the mids or top end a bit, to taste.

+1

We use the X32 and has great compression and HPF options. But if you like outboard gear, a nice tube comp will impart some tube flavor and tighten up the bass, and a HPF will drop the mud. Might be worth a look.

 

[ChickWithaRic]

One thing you will find confusing with compressors is the labelling of the controls between brands. That's worthy of a thread by itself.

 

[SoCal80s]

First, note that whoever is running the X32 can already fix all of this for you on the X32. But, maybe they don't know how or don't want to, and it is always nice to be ready for any situation. So I suggest you get your own compressor and a DI with some tone-shaping options. For me, I like the sound of Ampeg so I use an Ampeg compressor and the Ampeg SCR-DI (with the added bonus that the SCR-DI gives you distortion too).

 

[HolmeBass]

In my experience the SansAmp seems to add quite a bit of compression. Although not the kind/sound of compression I like. It took me a long time to find a stomp box compressor that I really liked, the Cali 76 CB, and it’s not an inexpensive pedal.

I would try an HPF and blending in a fair bit of clean on the SA and see if that gets you there, or even closer.

While it might not be a popular opinion, I always find Fender basses to be a bit boomy and inarticulate. It’s part of the sound. So if you want really punchy, articulate bass tones you may need a different bass. But I bet some careful EQing will probably get you where you want to be.

 

[ChickWithaRic]

While it might not be a popular opinion, I always find Fender basses to be a bit boomy and inarticulate. It’s part of the sound. So if you want really punchy, articulate bass tones you may need a different bass. But I bet some careful EQing will probably get you where you want to be.

If a Fender P is boomy and inarticulate, it's not a new bass that is needed. I've never even heard a Squier Affinity that sounds like that.