Help Settling an Argument: Who made the Mistake?

[djkool]

OK, 2 different agruements, $100 riding on each.

Who makes the mistake in Alman Bros "One Way Out". Bass or drummer? I say the bass player counts himself in one beat early. My friend insists the drummer screws up.

In ZZTop's "Cheap Sunglasses", there's a little riff at the end of each verse that I say ON THE RECORDING is a Fender Rhodes. My friend insists it's a guitar with a ring modulater. Might be live, but what is on the original recording?

 

[djkool]

BTW, in "One Way Out", in talking about after the center section with just drums and slide guitar.

 

[Febs]

Who makes the mistake in Alman Bros "One Way Out". Bass or drummer? I say the bass player counts himself in one beat early. My friend insists the drummer screws up.

I think that the timing there is so screwed up that it's hard to assign blame to any one player. There are timing glitches between the drums and the guitar solo somewhere around 2:35, and by 3:00 when the guitar solo starts, it sounds like one of the drummers is turned around compared to the other. Listen at 3:01 -- the snare is on one and three compared to the guitar solo. I think that what is impressive though is that once the bass does come in and is clearly out of sync with the drums, it takes the entire band 4 seconds to adjust and pull it back together.

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

yeah, I don't think that stuff was a mistake, that is just how they played, loose and cool.
come in when you are ready, watch for cues.

 

[elgecko]

...Listen at 3:01 -- the snare is on one and three compared to the guitar solo...

Exactly, one of the drummers was already turned around during the breakdown. Perfect example of the wheels lifting off the track but the train NOT derailing. It was close though!

 

[Flad]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheap_Sunglasses

Wikipedia says Rig Mod. Did I win the $100?

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

re. One Way Out: That song always sounded like they clammed it and decided that it worked. TONS of tunes feature clams. Listen to the outro of "Fire" by Hendrix - failrly monster clam by the Noel (he changes key when no one else does) but no really cared. PRESS IT!
re. ZZTop - I'd be willing to bet good money that's a Rhodes. Occam's Razor, my friend. That'd be the easiest way to achieve that sound.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheap_Sunglasses

Wikipedia says Rig Mod. Did I win the $100?

Well, if Wiki says it, it MUST be true.

 

[Bim1959]

If you believe the articles in Guitar World, Billy Gibbons played guitar thru a Maestro ring modulator into a Marshall Major (200 watt amp) with a blown tube.

Otherwise you would to have been there to know for sure.....

Sounds pretty close to a Wurlitzer electric piano to me tho....

 

[djkool]

Thanks for the comments..keep 'em coming.

No, Flad, I'm the one on the hook for the $100.

OWO. I agree the drums get some funky syncopation going, could be out of sync with each other, but the bass player still counts himself in one beat early. I also agree that they recovered really nicely.

I also agree that Billy may have used a ring modulator when recording that song, but that particular lick is a keyboard.

Looking for other opinions...

 

[birdman14]

On Cheap Sunglasses, it sounds a guitar with a ring mod to me. I base this mainly on an inconsistant tone between the notes, and if you slow down the track to .5 on youtube, you can hear how the effect only partially covers the picking of second higher note. This seems like it was an issue with tracking, which a rhodes certainly wouldn't do.

 

[elgecko]

Thanks for the comments..keep 'em coming.

No, Flad, I'm the one on the hook for the $100.

OWO. I agree the drums get some funky syncopation going, could be out of sync with each other, but the bass player still counts himself in one beat early...

Exactly. He comes in early then won't budge. You hear the drummer playing the correct back beat then have to shift the beat with two consecutive quarter hits to sync with the bass player a few bars later.

 

[fhm555]

Without putting too fine a point on it, both questions are what I'd consider s WHOGAS situation, certainly not something to be risking a couple C notes on.

First question is open to individual interpretation as to what occurred and mine is they did what they did best, they got a little loose with their jam but brought it back together so seamlessly it's open to individual interpretation as to who did what to cause the clam and who did what to being them back.

Long and short of the second question, if you were not there when it was recorded you are speculating.

I'd say you both have way too much time on your hands, but what better way to spend it than making bets you can never actually settle?

 

[Rocker949]

re. One Way Out: That song always sounded like they clammed it and decided that it worked. TONS of tunes feature clams. Listen to the outro of "Fire" by Hendrix - failrly monster clam by the Noel (he changes key when no one else does) but no really cared. PRESS IT!
re. ZZTop - I'd be willing to bet good money that's a Rhodes. Occam's Razor, my friend. That'd be the easiest way to achieve that sound.

The JHE had little choice but to press it in that case, although I can't remember the specific details I've read about what happened at the end of "Fire." I do know they had two hours booked in the studio; another band was evidently waiting to get in to record. After recording "Fire," they had twenty minutes left. Jimi had just written "The Wind Cries Mary." He showed it to Noel and Mitch. They played it through one time, then recorded it. It the remaining few minutes, Hendrix put the finishing touches to the guitar parts. Obviously, time was at a premium; "The Wind Cries Mary," being almost like an afterthought on the tail-end of the "Fire" session. In a perfect world, the bass might have been fixed on the "Fire" outro, but even if they had had time to fix it, I don't think it mattered to them.

 

[bluesblaster]

who cares.......it works right ? , and I still think thats a rhodes on cheap sunglasses, I use to slap that part and it sounded pretty cool if I do say so.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Hate to say it, but I think Berry Oakley comes in a half a beat early in One Way Out. The drmmer(s) fix it right up though. Since we're on the subject, what's up with Maggie May by Rod Stewart? Is that a beautiful mess or what? Ron Wood playing bass on that one.

 

[jerry]

I'll take the 'not on the grid' mistakes any day for feel!

 

[Rocktometrist]

First question is open to individual interpretation as to what occurred [...].

Not sure about this. Unless we're disregarding the rules of time and space, Oakley pretty clearly hucks a clam and comes in a beat early. Being the badasses they are/were, though, it didn't matter--if anything the quick recovery makes the cut even cooler!

 

[fhm555]

Not sure about this. Unless we're disregarding the rules of time and space, Oakley pretty clearly hucks a clam and comes in a beat early. Being the badasses they are/were, though, it didn't matter--if anything the quick recovery makes the cut even cooler!

Or Oakley was the only one to come correct, forcing the rest of the band to adjust so they'd be back together.

Unlikely, but not impossible. Like I said...individual interpretation, and lacking any other examples to compare it to, kinda silly to bet on it.

Agreed about their ability though. whoever dropped the ball, everyone else just slid right in like it was supposed to go that way.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

That is jam bands. That's the way it goes. Their ability to recover and regroup quickly shows their skill and professionalism.
I don't mind a wart here and there because it comes with the creative process.