Help with counting repeated riffs?

[BumbleB]

Can anyone please help me find a way to not lose count when playing songs that have a riff which repeats many times? For instance, in "Money" the opening riff repeats 10 times and I always lose track of how many times I've played it! Thank you for your suggestions, this issue drives me a little crazy!

 

[Journey55]

Well for songs like Money I just play along to the vocals and just remember where the line switches in relation to the vocal parts but for other songs it helps to sort of accent the first note of the phrase or whatever and just count those

 

[Stumbo]

1234 2234 3234 4234 5234....

 

[the_stone]

Always keep the melody going in your head. With enough practice and experience, you'll be able to "feel" when the harmony changes without explicitly hearing "MONEY!...It's a gas!"

 

[Savage_Dreams]

1234 2234 3234 4234 5234....

this is the BEST way. (although i beleive as well at some point in your playing you should be able to just feel it as well)

i have such a hard time getting my band to understand this way of counting. they will play the riff, count it as one, but by doing that your basically counting 1 at the beginning of the second one, 2 at the beginning of the third, and so on. causes such confusion. this is about the only thing that i hate when you talk about self taught vs having formal training.

(sorry for the tangent )

 

[quiltkitty]

1234 2234 3234 4234 5234....

^^^
This

I have this same problem in the outro of Young Blood by Norah Jones. The same riff is repeated eight times, and then it changes to the final riff, but the vocals do not change at the same time, so I always get confused. It's easier when your repeating a riff in the middle of a song.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

1234 2234 3234 4234 5234....

Yes. Plus I listen to the lead vocalist and follow the lyrics on my fake chord. 90% of the time I'm playing from fake chord and rely upon the lyrics to tell me where I should be in the song.

With Praise music the phrase could be repeated as many times as the vocalist feels the need. We seem to move with the "spirit" -- gotta be on our toes at all times, ready to move where ever the director takes us.

So I highlite the first word in each verse, chorus, bridge, etc. Hear that word - go there.

 

[Phalex]

When it comes to changes, the drummer is my salvation. I listen for vocal cues, melodic cues, and most of all drum cues.

Counting is definitely the best way to keep track, but listening for the drummer to telegraph a change works every time as well.

 

[mpdd]

eye contact - head nod

 

[Rip Topaz]

eye contact - head nod

This. It all comes down to communication.

 

[Flashback Bass]

Counting is definitely the best way to keep track, but listening for the drummer to telegraph a change works every time as well.

You have a drummer who counts?

Sadly, I am the only one in the band able to play and count, so everybody looks at me for the "big head nod"!

 

[wrench45us]

not much was worse than playing modern orchestral music (drum section) and miscounting and coming in with some loud crashing part a measure or two too soon

the secret of course is to appear as if you really meant to do that
modern enough it could work in concert

 

[angryclown5]

I add micro fills at the end of a group of repeated riffs or phrases. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned.

If a riff repeats 8 times under a solo or some other nebulous lead line, I add a couple of notes after the 4th repeat. Doesn't need to be much (ghost or percussion notes work), and sometimes it's only for me as a marker for where we are. If the repeating riff is long sometimes I add a marker after each 2. Anything to help keep the time.

 

[BumbleB]

Thanks for the tips! Sounds like this is yet another one of those things that will just get easier over time and then even easier after that when I get in a band. I'm woodshedding it in my basement for the time being and have been seriously playing for just a few months

 

[fdeck]

In addition to counting techniques, I suggest paying close attention to what the other instruments are playing, because you'll often notice the transitions leading to the next chord -- even in the drums. Eventually this becomes intuitive, and you'll "feel" where you are in the form, but listening is the key to getting there.

 

[MonkeyBass]

Follow the words, feel the form (you'll learn to feel when 4 bars go by), listen for drum fills etc...

Money is a blues form. It's just in 7/4. So play some blues until you can feel the form without counting.

 

[MonkeyBass]

Thanks for the tips! Sounds like this is yet another one of those things that will just get easier over time and then even easier after that when I get in a band. I'm woodshedding it in my basement for the time being and have been seriously playing for just a few months

You've only playing a few months? Yeah, give it time. Learning music and an instrument takes a lot of time, patients, and experience.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Thanks for the tips! Sounds like this is yet another one of those things that will just get easier over time and then even easier after that when I get in a band. I'm woodshedding it in my basement for the time being and have been seriously playing for just a few months

As you become more experienced you will lean to feel the passage of time. So learn and feel how to sub divide down, feel the time it takes quarter notes to pass in a bass and feel the same time 8th or 16th notes to pass in a bar. It is the same time and tempo, but more happens so it can seem more than it is.

Try the exercise in the link, it will develop your sense of time and awarness of time within a tempo.

 

[Bassic Playing]

When it comes to changes, the drummer is my salvation. I listen for vocal cues, melodic cues, and most of all drum cues.

Counting is definitely the best way to keep track, but listening for the drummer to telegraph a change works every time as well.

+1 just try to feel it roughly, then listen to that drummer like he's telling you the meaning of life.

 

[Feral Feline]

When it comes to changes, the drummer is my salvation. I listen for vocal cues, melodic cues, and most of all drum cues.

Counting is definitely the best way to keep track, but listening for the drummer to telegraph a change works every time as well.

You have a drummer who counts?

Sadly, I am the only one in the band able to play and count, so everybody looks at me for the "big head nod"!

+1 just try to feel it roughly, then listen to that drummer like he's telling you the meaning of life.

You guys HAVE a drummer?

Rarely do I have such a luxury. Lots of great advice already doled out, not much to add other than "You don't always have a drummer to lean on". If it's a complicated bass line I can't count 1234 2234 3234 etc. when I'm trying to get the line right.

My timing sucks and if the rhythm instrument drops out (be it guitar, banjo, mandolin, piano, organ or whatever combo I find myself in) I get lost almost immediately. I'm good at the auditory and visual cues of when to change (most of the time), but if it comes down to the soloist relying on MY internal clock... derail and train-wreck ensue.

So, I'm working on timing and it's like everything, it gets better with practice. Exercises like subdividing the notes down incrementally and hitting the click of the metronome more and more slowly, slowing the metronome down gradually so that you try to match a click on 1/4 note beat 4/4, then hit a note on just every 1 and 3, then just on the ones... then just on the 1 of bar one and 3 of bar two, hit one on every fourth bar. Then you can start hitting the offbeats like just the 3rd of every bar, then 3rd of every other bar etc...

Good time is the responsibility of everyone in the band, I need to step up.