Help with pedal order.

[Cam Buchanan]

Hi,

first post here!

was wondering if anyone could lend their wisdom on what they think my correct pedal order should be?

right now I have

2021 musicman stingray special 4H.

markbass combo amp.

And for effects I use the markbass pre DI. Through the Preamps fx I have in the following order.

mxr bass octave deluxe
Mxr bass fuzz deluxe
Mxr bass envelope filter
Mxr bass chorus deluxe
Mxr m87 compressor

All of the pedals sound great on their own, but I feel like the envelope filter must be misplaced. The filter sounds great Alone, but loses its groove when played in combo with the fuzz or octave. Going for a nice 70’s/80’s synth bass sound with the pedals all together.

 

[Spidey2112]

Have you tried the envelope filter at the start of the chain? Ahead of the octave/fuzz?

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Comp> octave> fuzz> filter > chorus

There's reasons to do things different than this, but this is kind of your standard starting point.

Envelope filters love to play after distortion and octave; they really like having all the harmonics to shape with. The down side of this is they can lose their dynamics a little. Try sweeping the sensitivity while you play until you hear the effect get stronger. If it's cranked, the effect can kind of get pegged and lose it's motion.

Comp can go anywhere, but it'll do different jobs in different places.

Chorus effects tend to get washed out before distortion; they also add dimension after distotion.

Octave usually likes a clean signal, and a clean compressed signal is all the better.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Cam Buchanan]

Comp> octave> fuzz> filter > chorus

There's reasons to do things different than this, but this is kind of your standard starting point.

Envelope filters love to play after distortion and octave; they really like having all the harmonics to shape with.

Comp can go anywhere, but it'll do different jobs in different places.

Chorus effects tend to get washed out before distortion; they also add dimension after distotion.

Octave usually likes a clean signal, and a clean compressed signal is all the better.

Good luck and have fun!

Thanks! This is pretty much the order I had in mind. The compressor pedal hasn’t come in yet and I was gonna play with it at the beginning or end of the chain.

 

[Cam Buchanan]

Have you tried the envelope filter at the start of the chain? Ahead of the octave/fuzz?

That was going to be my first swap. Figured I would ask here first before I go ripping up my new pretty organized pedalboard.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Thanks! This is pretty much the order I had in mind. The compressor pedal hasn’t come in yet and I was gonna play with it at the beginning or end of the chain.

I realized that after I posted. I made an edit about the filter control

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

There's no one right order. I'd place the comp in between the filter and the chorus. You can try placing the filter before the fuzz as well. If you place the filter before the octave, the octave won't track well most likely, so I wouldn't do that but you can try.

 

[bholder]

Envelope filters love to play after distortion and octave

Well yeah the filter part does best after distortion, with the rich harmonics, but the envelope sensing part wants to go first, before compression and distortion ruin the envelope dynamics. That's why I started a thread looking for split envelope followers: Does anyone make an envelope follower that plugs in place of an expression pedal?

 

[sonic 7]

I’d put the comp after the filter, octave and fuzz. I wouldn’t want to compress my signal before the filter, the filter is kind of dependent on your playing dynamics. And the fuzz and octave produce a compressed signal anyway.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Well yeah the filter part does best after distortion, with the rich harmonics, but the envelope sensing part wants to go first, before compression and distortion ruin the envelope dynamics. That's why I started a thread looking for split envelope followers: Does anyone make an envelope follower that plugs in place of an expression pedal?

I’d put the comp after the filter, octave and fuzz. I wouldn’t want to compress my signal before the filter, the filter is kind of dependent on your playing dynamics. And the fuzz and octave produce a compressed signal anyway.

Totally agree. That's why I have the Chromatron on my bigger board (which is still WIP) that has an effects loop.

I still prefer filters after distortion though. You get more of a subtle phasing effect instead of the wah effect because of reduced dynamics, so it's a trade off.

 

[Cam Buchanan]

I realized that after I posted. I made an edit about the filter control

Sweeping the sensitivity control helped with the issues.
Thank you.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Well yeah the filter part does best after distortion, with the rich harmonics, but the envelope sensing part wants to go first, before compression and distortion ruin the envelope dynamics. That's why I started a thread looking for split envelope followers: Does anyone make an envelope follower that plugs in place of an expression pedal?

But if the envelope sounds better by itself than after a fuzz, I thin

Sweeping the sensitivity control helped with the issues.
Thank you.

Might want to tweak the q, also. Envelope filters are definitely not a 'more knob=more effect' kind of device. Once you get the sensitivity dialed that's a great time to play with the other knobs to find the sweet spots.

Edit: i'm just gonna leave this debacle as it is and acknowledge I posted this cobbled mess, albeit with some useful info.

 

[Cam Buchanan]

But if the envelope sounds better by itself than after a fuzz, I thin

Might want to tweak the q, also. Envelope filters are definitely not a 'more knob=more effect' kind of device. Once you get the sensitivity dialed that's a great time to play with the other knobs to find the sweet spots.

I’ll try that next,

just got the pedals the other day, I just copied a preset I saw on a YouTube video of Nik West’s pedalboard as my starting point.

 

[bholder]

But if the envelope sounds better by itself than after a fuzz, I thin

Might want to tweak the q, also. Envelope filters are definitely not a 'more knob=more effect' kind of device. Once you get the sensitivity dialed that's a great time to play with the other knobs to find the sweet spots.

And of course, switch to another bass or guitar, and you have to set the sensitivity all over again. Very dependent on pickup strength and character.

The other solution to the issue is to allow the "split" of the envelope triggering by having a separate "Trigger" input - so you can put the filter or phaser or whatever at the end of the line where the signal is rich, but run a copy of the unmolested original input signal to the Trigger input to control the envelope follower. Great feature, but not all boxes have it.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

And of course, switch to another bass or guitar, and you have to set the sensitivity all over again. Very dependent on pickup strength and character.

The other solution to the issue is to allow the "split" of the envelope triggering by having a separate "Trigger" input - so you can put the filter or phaser or whatever at the end of the line where the signal is rich, but run a copy of the unmolested original input signal to the Trigger input to control the envelope follower. Great feature, but not all boxes have it.

That's a post-initial-learning-curve feature, I think, but it's definitely fun to play with.

 

[bholder]

That's a post-initial-learning-curve feature, I think, but it's definitely fun to play with.

Me, I always go hands-on and get right into the tweakiest details too fast. And these pedals are nothing if not "tweaky".

 

[FrenchBassQC]

Octave, filter, comp, fuzz and chorus for me...

 

[Wood and Wire]

Hi,

first post here!

was wondering if anyone could lend their wisdom on what they think my correct pedal order should be?

right now I have

2021 musicman stingray special 4H.

markbass combo amp.

And for effects I use the markbass pre DI. Through the Preamps fx I have in the following order.

mxr bass octave deluxe
Mxr bass fuzz deluxe
Mxr bass envelope filter
Mxr bass chorus deluxe
Mxr m87 compressor

All of the pedals sound great on their own, but I feel like the envelope filter must be misplaced. The filter sounds great Alone, but loses its groove when played in combo with the fuzz or octave. Going for a nice 70’s/80’s synth bass sound with the pedals all together.

Where you place them depends on what you're trying to achieve - and if you're ever wanting to have all the effects active at any one time, a degree of compromise is unavoidable.

For example, if you want to have the octave pedal and the envelope filter engaged simultaneously ; the octave pedal is going to track pitch more accurately if it is first in line, but the filter pedal will track the envelope dynamics more accurately if it is first.

And no matter which order you run those two effects, if you run them simultaneously, there's real potential for speaker destroying frequency sweeps.

Personally, I would remove a few of those pedals from the Mark Bass preamp F/X loop, and instead put them in front of the preamp :


StingRay -> cable -> octave pedal -> envelope filter pedal -> fuzz deluxe -> cable -> Mark Bass preamp input [F/X loop send] -> compressor pedal -> chorus deluxe [F/X loop return] Mark Bass preamp out -> cable -> amp / console / audio interface etc.




It's generally a good idea to reserve the F/X loop for tools / effects that operate in the time domain, and instead place effects that operate in the frequency domain ahead of the preamp - there are of course exceptions.

 

[bholder]

Where you place them depends on what you're trying to achieve - and if you're ever wanting to have all the effects active at any one time, a degree of compromise is unavoidable.

Words of Wisdom!

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Hi,

first post here!

was wondering if anyone could lend their wisdom on what they think my correct pedal order should be?

right now I have

2021 musicman stingray special 4H.

markbass combo amp.

And for effects I use the markbass pre DI. Through the Preamps fx I have in the following order.

mxr bass octave deluxe
Mxr bass fuzz deluxe
Mxr bass envelope filter
Mxr bass chorus deluxe
Mxr m87 compressor

All of the pedals sound great on their own, but I feel like the envelope filter must be misplaced. The filter sounds great Alone, but loses its groove when played in combo with the fuzz or octave. Going for a nice 70’s/80’s synth bass sound with the pedals all together.

I put envelope filters way up front. Filters have to be engaged to work. Fuzzes just chop the peaks off the sine waves and modulation pedals just add a time-based element, for example. I feel like those pedals in front of an envelope filter impede engaging the filter(s). Cheers!

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I wouldn't put anything before the octave except maybe compressor, but envelope before fuzz is better than after as a fuzz tone won't trigger it same as a clean tone.

I'd be octave, envelope, fuzz, chorus, comp although envelope filter through fuzz can sound weird. Maybe you need two filters...