Help with tone issue please ( new bassist )

[Woodsglen]

OK.. I'm trying to nail down a tone issue that would cover a multitude of sins.

My Rig is a Fender P Lyte
Genz Benz neopak 3.5 running into a genz benz 4X10 XLT
( tweeter version)

Amp has following controls.
active preamp vol/level

EQ Bass +-15db
parametric mids with +/- 15 db over 150Hz to 250KHZ sweep
HF +-15db

Mass boost - Mid Scoop - HF Attack

It's not just this bass - i have a 5 string D-5 and its pretty consistent.. ( until i put flats on it.. then that really heavied it up.. the jury is still out on that idea...)


So back to the fender... What I am getting is a lot of low end.. ( deep lows ) .. or a lot of percussive type high end attack and harmonic.. sort of... "hit me harder and we have great slap bass tone" - or something on the thin side that just isn't me...

I'm looking for a smooth round growl ( not to be confused with my last name..)

I have a J-Station that I've experimented with... ( getting some compression.. noise gate.. several amp heads ( all going out without cabinet emulation )..

Some interesting results there... close..

my practice room is about 900 Sq Feet with high ceilings.

i have a pic ( i'm working on stuff so ignore the piece of paper on the floor in the corner, etc.. this shot is not for house beautiful... )

I've tried angling the bass cabinet back ( as per another post) which does help me hear the cabinet dead on.. vs standing over its line of sight.

Below i have two clips from Y-Tube that will load right up quickly. The grease clip.. everyone has heard.. that's a good general idea.. but specifically the next tune has the tone i'm really looking for...

So.. cabinet position? Processor? , Compression, Strings? (please no), Shoot the bass player? Go back to playing the piano?.. any suggestions?

I'm gearing up for an audition so I'm going through a baptism by fire here. I'm going to record what I'm doing later with the direct out from the GB and drop that into a mix with some of the original material...

I've been a musician long enough to know that when we record stuff and then critically listen to what we played.. sometimes
" It don't sound as good as we thought" at the time!

What am I looking for?

Here's a Generic Example



The specific sound is at 21 seconds (you only need to listen to about 30 seconds or so to get the idea..)

Check me on this one.. My Ears tell me that there is no bass playing prior to that opening line at 21 seconds.. please correct me if I'm wrong.

Any experienced ( or lucky) players who have nailed down some acceptable tone issues,, I would really appreciate your input.

Thanks
Wayne

 

[tiller]

Well it could be a number of things. the first thing i would check would be my amp eq. after that it may be that you are just hitting that note harder than the rest... but if i had to guess i would think it would be the eq.... i would try to decrease my low mids and tinker with it til i figured it out

 

[Woodsglen]

Thanks, I should have mentioned that I have done a lot of working with the EQ on the amp ( short of running a graphic EQ in the loop) I'm trying to accomplish this without a full rack of equipment...

Most of what I've found is dropping the mids and highs.. keeping the bass (guitar) pretty flat on the tone controls and balance.. ( then give or take) so I don't distort my perspective of what I'm doing with EQ. I have had interesting results in my "Quest for Tone" by lowering the mid paramateric freq. point to somewhere around (guessing based on the Freq range from 150 to 2KHZ) 750 Hz.. or there about.. and boosting that Freq point slightly ( to more slightly..)

Some times I find it is just difficult to "hear" what is going on.. I've got a good size room but it's still a room and not a stage. ( and I don't know what a stage sounds like yet)

Cabinet position? Add a 15? ( i just happen to have a Yamaha SW115V and 800 watts of amplifier)

Am i leaving neck/fret position out of my equation? I really am not a fan of playing open positions unless it's low E or B.. otherwise, I try to play the neck - mostly as a matter of personal choice and hand position.. and (to me) i do have more consistent tonal character. Not saying it's the exact tone I would be trying to dial in.. but for any given tone.. i hear a lot more consistency. ( or have the drugs just kicked in?)

So, yes, I've done a lot of this, but I can't nail down that tone quality in the example.
it's like it almost has a "Vowel" in its tonal character. Its a smooth sound.. so i'm wondering about processing?.. but I'll wait for some more feedback.. hopefully someone recognizes this tone quality and might have some concrete suggestions - if not flat out answers!.. I hope it's not "don't try this at home"...

Thanks for you suggestions so far...

 

[P-oddz]

Can't offer much help with your setup now -

But to me, both of those clips sound like a jazz bass favoring the bridge pickup. IMHO no matter how you EQ, or how ever many additional cabs you think about adding, I just don't think you'll achieve your sought after tone with your current tools.

I guess with that being said, as far as trying to maintain that tone with your P Lyte - I would maybe recommend the flats (going by the "Grease" tone) and play much closer to the bridge (and by that I mean practically ON the bridge). Also I would maybe recommend playing with a pick to get more of the SNAP out of it. Maybe that will put you a bit closer.

Maybe I'm completely wrong(?)

 

[thumpbass1]

You are going to have to learn to e.q. to the room you get stuck with, in live situations, or any other location, or for whatever you encounter down the road. As far as getting stuck on a particular personal bedroom sound you are going for, the reality is that you'll be called upon to fit in the overall mix, for the benefit of the band, even if you are in a group that sticks within a certain style in your comfort zone. You'll also find yourself making tonal tweaks along the way to best fit in at that given moment in time. You may have a killer personal tone at home that you just love, but in live situations you have to compromise to make the band sound great as a total unit if you want to keep your job. Some of my best compliments in regards to my playing came from gigs where my onstage tone was crap to my ears, but in the front mix I guess I sounded golden to the audience, and the sound engineers. I've also had many happy gigs where I was also generally happy with my onstage tone, besides what was going on in front to the house. You'll just have to gig and learn how your stuff works under the gun. As far as your specific tone target, any decent Fender J or P- bass can deliver that quite well. Just e.q. when you have the full band in place to get to try to get there, and don't rely so much on what you are getting by yourself at home.

 

[carlos840]

Well i just listened to the grease track, what a great bass line!
Going to learn that now....

Tone wise, im hearing some kind of Pbass, or a jazz bass with neck pickup favored, played with a pick and an old school amp being driven ever so slightly...

PS: i just started learning it, and i get pretty much the same tone on my jazz bass ( rotosound Nickel strings) going through my Mesa Walkabout scout 12" (EQ set pretty much flat), with the bridge pickup backed off almost all the way, tone closed halfway and playing with a pick with a wee bit of palm muting!

I am pretty sure that is the way it was recorded, although its hard to say if its a P bass or a jazz with neck pickup only.
In my opinion this is a pretty straight forward tone, and im thinking you shoud go for the less is more to get it rather than trying to do to much!

 

[Woodsglen]

Thanks.. I've done some variations from listening to you guys.. I took my mids and lowered the Freq center just a little more and bumped that even further ( than I though i ever would ) .. interesting - I leveled out my tone controls on the bass.. took the bass up on the amp and brought it back on the bass.. backed off of the bridge pickup.. and things smoothed out a lot already..

In some respects.. I think the bass control on the guitar can yield some unpredictable results... since I seemed to be using that as my 1st line of EQ... Am I off base on that idea? vs.. now having that centered or even backing it off a tad and keeping the EQ on the amp head more "focused"..

this actually cleaned up my playing a little too... cut down on extraneous "noise" from finger movement and fret noise and all that.

There's a lot to learn about this instrument... a lot more than correct notes. I'm enjoying it immensely!

Interesting thought here.. on a lot of these tunes I'm working on.. the bass line is not just 1,4,5 some pretty complicated parts that I knew would be a big waste of time to try and listen and play it over and over (without out consistency).. so I transcribed them into notation with Finale.

One of my biggest hurdles with both guitar and bass... is Where am I on the neck?
A keyboard is linear with the octaves all the same - for me this was a chore to comprehend just what note I am playing.. ( name that note ).. and more so relying on a very good ear and hand position memory. Well, sticking a score up on the stand has really broken the barrier on this for me. Things fell into place really quickly. reading tab is OK but I was still clueless as to what I was playing half the time.

This is a great forum.. I learn a lot just by reading, but some of the things you guys have laid out for me here have been really enlightening. Tone is a study all in itself I think!...

Any more advise.. I'm all ears!

Thanks...Wayne

 

[carlos840]

Hey,

First on the tone, i think your doing the right thing by not relying to much on your amps and bass EQ! I just use mine to tweak my sound to a room, but i play mostly flat... ( i never use active basses though, cant deal with them!)
You can get more than enough different tones with pickup blends, tone knob and mostly right hand technique! (whether your using a pick or not)...
I used to be a fingerstyle player only and started using a pick last year and it has really opened up a lot of possibilities and tones!
The grease tune i think is a great example of a classic pick tone and i dont think you can get there playing with your fingers (i also noticed that you play differently when playing with fingers or pick, something to do with my phrasing coming out differently!)

Regarding learning parts i think its just a question of time before you get the ear...
I managed to get myself a music degree without really being able to read or right, for me it takes a lot longer to read, or use tabs than to listen to the tracks.
My memory is pretty good to, so i can listen to a track and play it back pretty fast...
It took me something like 10 minutes to get the grease track you posted, i can also hear what fingerings are used and where the notes are being played on the neck easily which helps... ( tabs are always full of useless fingerings, right notes but played at random parts of he neck!)
I really believe that although reading and writing is a great thing to be bale to do, your ears are the most important...