Double Bass Here We Go Agian/Walter Woods and ebay

[Ric Vice]

Dear Folks,
Well, there's a Walter Woods Electro Acoustic Stereo Amplifier on ebay
and it's $3,500.00 if you buy it now. Personally, I'd wait and order one from Walter. Patience after all has it's virtues. Did he quit making the Stereo Ultras?
This is making the new Micro from EA better and better provided it's a winner. Don't shoot the messenger, or Walter for that matter, IMHO ebay's the root
of this problem. I got a EA Mint VL 208 on Talkbass for a very reasonable price , it's where I do most all of my shopping these days

Ric

 

[Reefer]

Dear Folks,
Well, there's a Walter Woods Electro Acoustic Stereo Amplifier on ebay
and it's $3,500.00 if you buy it now. Personally, I'd wait and order one from Walter. Patience after all has it's virtues. Did he quit making the Stereo Ultras?
This is making the new Micro from EA better and better provided it's a winner. Don't shoot the messenger, or Walter for that matter, IMHO ebay's the root
of this problem.

Ric

Ebay is not a problem! It's Economics 101, supply and demand. Ebay has opened up a larger market to a limited supply commodity, hence being able to bring higher prices to the ones that are willing and able to pay. When prices get high enough where people are not willing to pay they will either drop or stabilize. Sorry, but that's life!

 

[Ric Vice]

Ebay is not a problem! It's Economics 101, supply and demand. Ebay has opened up a larger market to a limited supply commodity, hence being able to bring higher prices to the ones that are willing and able to pay. When prices get high enough where people are not willing to pay they will either drop or stabilize. Sorry, but that's life!

Reefer,
I guess you're right. However, I'm glad that we have the Trading Site within talkbass. It tends to level the playing field for us mortals. I'm thankful that there are folks on TB willing to sell their used gear for
a more reasonable proffit. We'll just see how this particular sale progresses. If the WW Stereo amps no longer avaliable, then the seller will probably get his asking price.

Ric

 

[Ric Vice]

Well the Stereo Walter Woods Ultra is no longer on ebay. Since
I didn't check back today I'm not sure if the buyer sold it or pulled it.

Ric

 

[Reefer]

Well the Stereo Walter Woods Ultra is no longer on ebay. Since
I didn't check back today I'm not sure if the buyer sold it or pulled it.

Ric

The auction ended with no sale!

 

[KJung]

Dear Folks,
Well, there's a Walter Woods Electro Acoustic Stereo Amplifier on ebay
and it's $3,500.00 if you buy it now. Personally, I'd wait and order one from Walter. Patience after all has it's virtues. Did he quit making the Stereo Ultras?
This is making the new Micro from EA better and better provided it's a winner. Don't shoot the messenger, or Walter for that matter, IMHO ebay's the root
of this problem. I got a EA Mint VL 208 on Talkbass for a very reasonable price , it's where I do most all of my shopping these days

Ric

Per Reefer's comment... 'asking price' and actually selling the unit are two different things. Not sure why you would consider EBay to have anything to do with setting a selling price.

As we've discussed, my guess is that many Walter owners who want to sell their amps start out very high on EBay type sites due to the non-US market being unable to get new Walter Woods amps... hence, the used ones can go for really high dollars over there from what I've seen. No one in their right mind in the US would pay anywhere near that for a Walter IMO.

Regarding the EA mini amp, I just spent some time with the new Eden260 (playing EB), which has the same power rating as the upcoming EA head. It was, IMO, VERY unimpressive.... compressed tone... classic underpower symptoms... build quality was not at the AI level. This head makes you realize how far ahead of its time the Walters were and are, and how good the AI stuff is. Maybe these new micro heads would be OK for DB though.

I personally can't quite figure out how a 260 watt micro amp would be a significant improvement over the 800 watt Focus that has been out for a couple of years, and is about the same size and weight... but that's just me

 

[Uncletoad]

I personally can't quite figure out how a 260 watt micro amp would be a significant improvement over the 800 watt Focus that has been out for a couple of years, and is about the same size and weight... but that's just me

Not just you.

 

[bolo]

I personally can't quite figure out how a 260 watt micro amp would be a significant improvement over the 800 watt Focus that has been out for a couple of years, and is about the same size and weight... but that's just me

I hear what you're sayin'. Except for that 260 watt part ... 300 @ 4 ohms, no?

But - FWIW, to get 800 watts from an AI like you said, and get 2 channels like the EA Micro, you'd pay $1399 for a new Focus 2R III. I see that Bob G. is taking pre-orders now for the EA Micro at $529.

Might as well point out too that the Clarus 2R III w/ 400 watts @ 4 ohms is $919 street.

Granted, the EA Micro does not have all the same features. The 2 channel AIs have the dual-purpose inputs, notch/HPF, and more. Just pointing out that pricing will be a definite consideration for some, especially given the large variance.

In my case I'd lean toward the AIs due to their feature set based on my needs ... but that's just me. I can understand why some might feel differently.

I wouldn't dismiss the EA offering just yet. In fact I'd bet they sell quite a few.

 

[KJung]

I hear what you're sayin'. Except for that 260 watt part ... 300 @ 4 ohms, no?

But - FWIW, to get 800 watts from an AI like you said, and get 2 channels like the EA Micro, you'd pay $1399 for a new Focus 2R III. I see that Bob G. is taking pre-orders now for the EA Micro at $529.

Might as well point out too that the Clarus 2R III w/ 400 watts @ 4 ohms is $919 street.

Granted, the EA Micro does not have all the same features. The 2 channel AIs have the dual-purpose inputs, notch/HPF, and more. Just pointing out that pricing will be a definite consideration for some, especially given the large variance.

In my case I'd lean toward the AIs due to their feature set based on my needs ... but that's just me. I can understand why some might feel differently.

I wouldn't dismiss the EA offering just yet. In fact I'd bet they sell quite a few.

I was actually speaking of the Eden, which is 260 watts at 4ohm at 110 in the US. Since the Eden has quite a voicing to it, it doesn't seem that particularly suited to DB, and it really isn't powerful enough for most EB applications IMO (and it's not a particularly loud 260 watts either). It's also much larger than I would have thought... very small, but no smaller than the AI or Walter.

I can't comment on the 300 watt EA... since they don't exist yet! However, with EA's more neutral voicing, there may be an application for 'DBers on a budget' like you say... or even not on a budget if they sound good

 

[SteveC]

I find myself going away from ultra small and light. I tried it, I wanted to like it, my back wanted me to like it, but they just don't seem to have the same balls that a "real" amp does.

 

[robgrow]

Keep in mind that how much power is enough depends on several factors including the efficiency of the speakers being driven. For example, an EA Wizzy is 4 dB more sensitive than an EA VL-208. So you'd need about 750 watts to have the same effective power with the VL-208 as you'd have with a 300 watt amp driving a Wizzy.

 

[bolo]

I was actually speaking of the Eden, which is 260 watts at 4ohm at 110 in the US. Since the Eden has quite a voicing to it, it doesn't seem that particularly suited to DB, and it really isn't powerful enough for most EB applications IMO (and it's not a particularly loud 260 watts either). It's also much larger than I would have thought... very small, but no smaller than the AI or Walter.

I can't comment on the 300 watt EA... since they don't exist yet! However, with EA's more neutral voicing, there may be an application for 'DBers on a budget' like you say... or even not on a budget if they sound good

Oops ... Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

The thought of an EA micro amp and the proposed Wizzy 10 is pretty cool. I think some have already dubbed it the "nano" rig.

 

[bribass]

I find myself going away from ultra small and light. I tried it, I wanted to like it, my back wanted me to like it, but they just don't seem to have the same balls that a "real" amp does.

I've said it on other threads, although cab/head that are too big and powerful ie. large R&R rigs, can cause feedback issues w/ DB, but when it comes to small rigs "there's just no substitute for mass". Atleast not yet. I think this is especially true w/ small to medium bass rigs.

But a WW or AI head are just about the best amps to power any cab for DB.

 

[NickyBass]

So, what's a good price for a WW ElectroAcoustic? I've seen them sell as high as $3250, and then I saw one with a BIN for $1800.

Would you say $2500-$2700 is fair???

 

[Ric Vice]

So, what's a good price for a WW ElectroAcoustic? I've seen them sell as high as $3250, and then I saw one with a BIN for $1800.

Would you say $2500-$2700 is fair???

NickyBass,
Personally, I think you're better of to call Walter Woods and order a new unit, unless someone on Talkbass is selling one. Walter's No. is (760) 347-7099. Keep in mind that these amps are hand built, so it may take as long as 6 months to get one. That way you don't accidentally inherit some difficulty with a used unit. As far as the price range goes Walter can tell you what his current prices are.

Ric

 

[Uncletoad]

NickyBass,
Personally, I think you're better of to call Walter Woods and order a new unit, unless someone on Talkbass is selling one. Walter's No. is (760) 347-7099. Keep in mind that these amps are hand built, so it may take as long as 6 months to get one. That way you don't accidentally inherit some difficulty with a used unit. As far as the price range goes Walter can tell you what his current prices are.

Ric

Agreed. Walter's prices are in the same neighborhood you quoted. I'd prefer he got that cash than some profiteering eBay scumbag. People have been snatching his stuff up right from Walter brand new and reselling it for hundreds of dollars over the brand new price. I think Walter deserves that dough. I'll bet you'll get better treatment from him if you send him a bunch of money than if you call about something you paid for second hand. He's been really cool to me.

 

[all_grown_up]

Agreed. Walter's prices are in the same neighborhood you quoted. I'd prefer he got that cash than some profiteering eBay scumbag. People have been snatching his stuff up right from Walter brand new and reselling it for hundreds of dollars over the brand new price. I think Walter deserves that dough. I'll bet you'll get better treatment from him if you send him a bunch of money than if you call about something you paid for second hand. He's been really cool to me.

I think we need to be more circumspect about our views on ebay and the FMV of items. I own a WW Stereo Ultra and I have no intention of selling it. Lets suppose I decide I need the money or find something I like better or decide that the bass business is not economical. When I go to sell it, should I choose a price that I deem fair which presumably is at a discount to a new one or sell it for what a willing buyer will pay? Ebay is a pretty good place for finding out what $top dollar is. Or should I choose a lower price and sell it to a fellow bass player as a favor and trust that they will not simply turn around and sell it for market. If I decide to post it with a $3500 buy it now and someone is willing to pay it, presumably cause Walter can't make them fast enough does that make me a profiteering scumbag? Perhaps but that definition will capture a lot of businesses. I don't think it is the same as selling generators at 4X retail after a hurricane which is clearly taking advantage of desperate people.

 

[Ric Vice]

I think we need to be more circumspect about our views on ebay and the FMV of items.

All Grown Up,
Sellers on Ebay are going to be subject to close scrutiny if they inflate
prices beyond what a new piece is selling for. I look at this thread as a "buyer beware" message to enlighten individuals who may be unaware of the inflated prices that some individuals are charging for "limited run" products.

I own a WW Stereo Ultra and I have no intention of selling it. Lets suppose I decide I need the money or find something I like better or decide that the bass business is not economical. When I go to sell it, should I choose a price that I deem fair which presumably is at a discount to a new one or sell it for what a willing buyer will pay?

Since I too own a Walter Woods Ultra. and am unwilling to part with it
I could only make a guess as to what I would ask for it. It would very much depend on what my financial circumstances were at the time. I did sell my Walter Woods MI-100-8 that originally cost $650.00 for $500.00 in 2001. At that time I fealt that it was a fair price for a used unit.

Ebay is a pretty good place for finding out what $top dollar is. Or should I choose a lower price and sell it to a fellow bass player as a favor and trust that they will not simply turn around and sell it for market.

Personally I prefer not to post or buy things on ebay. That's why I like the Talkbass's Double Bass "For Sale" thread. It's smaller and more user friendly to me. I've had good experiences.

If I decide to post it with a $3500 buy it now and someone is willing to pay it, presumably cause Walter can't make them fast enough does that make me a profiteering scumbag? Perhaps but that definition will capture a lot of businesses.

IMHO it would depend on the situation. If you are selling you're personal amplifier, then it's your decision what you ask for it. However, it's been stated that individuals are reported to have purchased brand new Walter Woods Ultras and turned right around and resold them for premium prices. I think that's unfortunate and that's where the profiteering scumbag issue arises from. Since it's impossible to tell what a particular amplifier was purchased for, buying them directly from Walter Woods eliminates the issue entirely.

I don't think it is the same as selling generators at 4X retail after a hurricane which is clearly taking advantage of desperate people.

I don't think anyone would dissagree with you on that point.

 

[all_grown_up]

All Grown Up,
it. However, it's been stated that individuals are reported to have purchased brand new Walter Woods Ultras and turned right around and resold them for premium prices. I think that's unfortunate and that's where the profiteering scumbag issue arises from. Since it's impossible to tell what a particular amplifier was purchased for, buying them directly from Walter Woods eliminates the issue entirely.

I think anyone who purchases a new one from Walter and turns around and sells it on ebay for a higher price is a profiteering scumbag.