Here's how to sound thunderous live!

[tshapiro]

It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but, let's say you're starting to play larger and crowded venues and the expectation is to have a huge concert or festival style bass sound.

Well, you need oogles of power and volume but there's a bit more to it if you don't want to lose the gig. First off, taking your typical 100-1000 watt amp for a ride is a different game when is being fortified with a 5,000 to 50,000 watt PA. Here's some tricks. First off, you're going after low end transients and they'll swallow up everything audibly on stage so if at all possible use in-ears so you can have some clarity. Additionally, ditch as many pedals as possible unless they are absolutely critical to your sound. A strong clear signal will help you hear and will remove some of the mixing complexity for the sound guy. I knew this gig (middle 2 pics) was going to be a low end nightmare on stage because it's a very loud event and the close walls harness the lows.

To counter it, I went with just a tuner and mute switch - anything else would have gotten buried in the mush and just dulled the signal chain. Definitely helps to have a bass with an active pre-amp the you can nudge up the low end and high end for an extra bit of clarity.

Next, getting the low end to penentrate the chests of the people in the back of the room requires a ton of power, but, you need to avoid being overwhelming in the mix and to those up front. What to do? Well, you need plenty of power for the low end. Robust PA, plenty of amp-speaker surface area (I like 8 speakers) but then you need to back off the mids. That's right, you're not looking for an in your face sound or step on the guitarist or singers. You're going 'underground'. Turn everything up, cut the mids a bit from your normal setting and play softly and towards the middle of the strings(see the pic with me above and pic of Geddy below who often played towards the neck).

The power is coming from then PA and amp. It's your job to put all that high-end gear to good use by setting it loose with low end transients that push the amps hard. In other words, you are going to push every available watt the sound system was designed to give. You'll want to do this across the frequency spectrum without over pushing the mids. Don't get me wrong here, you'll still have plenty of mids and highs, it's just that you will fill up the low end. I learned this from trial and error and also watching some of my favorite bassists live, Sting(Synchronicity tour - not earlier when he was still learning), Geddy Lee, Ethan Farmer, and watching how soft and articulate they played. I saw that Police tour live, he used a PA system on stage for his amp and the way he played created a wall of sound you didn't see coming - and it was fun.

Realistically, there's lots of great bass tones out there. What I'm describing here is how to create that 'wall of sound' effect. Enjoy

 

[AGCurry]

Looking at your photos, maybe another title for this thread would be "How to be louder than a big, loud, drunk crowd in a room with bad acoustics?"

 

[tshapiro]

Looking at your photos, maybe another title for this thread would be "How to be louder than a big, loud, drunk crowd in a room with bad acoustics?"

Actually, that is one of the big misconceptions - in my opinion of course. A wall of sound, one that you can feel, is not about being loud. It's about activating low frequencies and transients. People, especially drunk people, love to feel it - not necessarily hear it. Also, you can't make the cash register ring if the bartenders can't hear the orders. As a top bar band, ultimately surving on what goes into the cash register, one needs to have full awareness of this dynamic. More fun pics of happy patrons. Look at all those drinks, cha-ching :

 

[thekyle55]

What, exactly, is your point? You're trying to say something, and it may be worth hearing, but I can't figure out exactly what it is.

 

[two fingers]

You seem to make that work for you. Clearly, your band has reached a level of success you are happy with. And you're happy with your sound. AND you seem to be having a good time. Those are the things that matter.

All that said, I've had a totally different experience from yours, tonally speaking.

You said that you prefer an active bass so you can boost the lows and highs. I find (for me) that a scooped tone gets buried faster than your dead, rich, uncle. After three plus decades of doing this, I prefer all passive basses with the tone knob dimed. If I boost anything at the amp, it's low mids. Those are the "hit you in the chest" tones to me. Lows get flubby and just shake the walls. In fact, I use an HPF to chop off some of those lows. (Luckily, the creator of my TT800 had the wisdom to include one.... actually two... of them onboard.)

To me, the solution to what you are talking about is simply more speaker area. It doesn't take more watts. It doesn't take more lows. It takes more speaker. That way you can have clarity, and don't necessarily have to jack up the volume. (This assumes that the speaker cabs you are using excel at clarity, of course.)

If I had to guess, I would say your cabs (and a clear signal chain, as you explained) were the biggest parts of your success in "feeling" your tone without blowing out the stage.


All THAT said, you and I have found our individual tonal/volume Panacea. Others have found it in many creative and awesome ways. Some sit on a stool and pluck flats with the side of their thumbs into a Fliptop. Some have an SVT with two 810 cabs and saw away on their P bass with a pick. Some have very hi-fi basses and run into squeaky clean Genzler rigs. Hopefully we all get there and find some joy in the process.

That looked like a ridiculously fun gig.

 

[rickdog]

What, exactly, is your point? You're trying to say something, and it may be worth hearing, but I can't figure out exactly what it is.

I think the OP was quite clear what this was about:

A wall of sound, one that you can feel, is not about being loud. It's about activating low frequencies and transients. People, especially drunk people, love to feel it - not necessarily hear it. Also, you can't make the cash register ring if the bartenders can't hear the orders. As a top bar band, ultimately surviving on what goes into the cash register, one needs to have full awareness of this dynamic. More fun pics of happy patrons. Look at all those drinks, cha-ching :

There are lots of different reasons and ways to play music. One of them is to have a good ol' party time (check out those crowd pictures again). There's a sound and a style of performance that goes with that. Bass that you feel is an important part of it. Not overwhelming the frequencies people use to order drinks is another.

 

[tshapiro]

You seem to make that work for you. Clearly, your band has reached a level of success you are happy with. And you're happy with your sound. AND you seem to be having a good time. Those are the things that matter.

All that said, I've had a totally different experience from yours, tonally speaking.

You said that you prefer an active bass so you can boost the lows and highs. I find (for me) that a scooped tone gets buried faster than your dead, rich, uncle. After three plus decades of doing this, I prefer all passive basses with the tone knob dimed. If I boost anything at the amp, it's low mids. Those are the "hit you in the chest" tones to me. Lows get flubby and just shake the walls. In fact, I use an HPF to chop off some of those lows. (Luckily, the creator of my TT800 had the wisdom to include one.... actually two... of them onboard.)

To me, the solution to what you are talking about is simply more speaker area. It doesn't take more watts. It doesn't take more lows. It takes more speaker. That way you can have clarity, and don't necessarily have to jack up the volume. (This assumes that the speaker cabs you are using excel at clarity, of course.)

If I had to guess, I would say your cabs (and a clear signal chain, as you explained) were the biggest parts of your success in "feeling" your tone without blowing out the stage.


All THAT said, you and I have found our individual tonal/volume Panacea. Others have found it in many creative and awesome ways. Some sit on a stool and pluck flats with the side of their thumbs into a Fliptop. Some have an SVT with two 810 cabs and saw away on their P bass with a pick. Some have very hi-fi basses and run into squeaky clean Genzler rigs. Hopefully we all get there and find some joy in the process.

That looked like a ridiculously fun gig.

Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective on it. I think it makes the thread better with that.

 

[tshapiro]

I think the OP was quite clear what this was about:

There are lots of different reasons and ways to play music. One of them is to have a good ol' party time (check out those crowd pictures again). There's a sound and a style of performance that goes with that. Bass that you feel is an important part of it. Not overwhelming the frequencies people use to order drinks is another.

Thanks for adding on