Hey, Pbass freaks!

[dozicusmaximus]

Quick question for you, that may lead to a long or short answer.
So I came across this video... and this Fender 77 Pbass sounds amazing.



Is it possible to get close to this tone with a newer MIA alder/maple? Or should I wait it out and look for a newer ash/maple?
Suggestions? Tips? Links? Soundbites? Anybody on the same quest?
I've played a few P basses. Pretty much all of them were alder/rosewood or basswood/rosewood. I've done some pick up mods on a Squier and a cheap Yamaha. Currently playing my guitarists older MIM alder?/rosewood.
I can't seem to get anywhere near that tone.
I'm not wanting to drop 2k. Unless I can actually find one local that really is something special.
I'm thinking of picking up a used MIA and putting in this old Dimarzio PAF P pickup I have laying around. That's where my thinking is at currently.

 

[Turkeypills]

My fury with a GZR sounds pretty similar to that 77 when the tone is rolled off halfway.

 

[StyleOverShow]

Yeah tone is made up of some many components that it is hard to say that $2k buy will yield anything except expectations...fulfilled or unfilled?

 

[P. Aaron]

Find a Precision (if that's the bass of choice) that plays & feels good. To order one with an ash body may take longer and there may be an up-charge for it as USA made ones are usually alder...with some exceptions.

The way Fender has been building them these last few years, it should be easy to find a nice playable and good looking Precision. I am not sure the woods really affect tone that much.

IF, you have to have a specific combination of which is not typically produced these days, well that may take a while to find.

 

[D.M.N.]

I think a lot of these differences can be achieved through EQing and strings. They all sound really similar, though I realize there are subtle differences. I think with fresh Rotos and EQ, my Alder/Rosewood AVRI '62 Precision sounds pretty close to that 77. Maybe somewhere between it and the 97 MIJ, with the highs of the 77 but more of the low mids of the 95.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

Fresh Rotos will be first. I loved Roto 77s for a good year. But, I never tried the rounds.
It is also time for a quality amp with a good EQ.

I had a 62 RI for a few days. I forgot about that. I had an issue with the seller and had to send it back. That one did have some bite.

 

[lz4005]

I think a lot of these differences can be achieved through EQing and strings.

Definitely.
EQ settings, strings, changing amps/cabs/pickups, effects, even right hand technique will each make a bigger difference than ash/alder.

 

[Corey Y]

My educated guess, based on listening through a few times without looking and then skipping back and forth on clips, is that most of the distinctive sound of that '77 is the pickups. Most of them didn't sound too different once the tone started rolling off, however the '77 stood way out from the others with the tone all the way off, less low end, cleaner and with more high end left over (might be the tone circuit as well?). With the pick style and max tone clips, I could heard very little difference between the MIM and MIA basses (first two clips) and then the '77 jumped way out again. The '77 sounded a lot more clear, seemed to have a little less robust low end and a little more high end bite to the tone. The MIJ sounded somewhere in between, a bit more output and high end, but not as drastic a change as the '77 from the MIM and MIA models.

There's a lot of variance between pickups, even of the same manufacturer and era. So it's hard to say why exactly it sounds that way or how to replicate it. Other than to try out different pickups in the Precision of your choice. I wish I knew more about the specific properties of late 70's Precision pickups to give you some kind of guidance on where to look for similar tone. Assuming the pickups in that bass are even original. Contacting some pickup builders/winders who do their own work directly, like Jason Lollar, might yield some useful information. I have personal preferences in body and fretboard wood, but have swapped between a lot of different Fender and non Fender models (some of the same type and specs, other than country of manufacture, some drastically different) and heard very little difference or a lot (most often felt the difference in my hands). Not trying to instigate a tone woods debate, there may be differences that affect tone in the wood choice, but I don't think they're the key factor in why that particular bass you like in the video stands out so much from the others. It's also possible that the comparison itself might color your opinion. You might play that bass by itself and not be as impressed as hearing it next to the others in rapid succession.

 

[jaybones]

The video made a point of saying EQ and amp were the same. Also same player playing the over the same jam track. I found myself digging the alder rosewood combo, USA then MIM.

 

[40Hz]

I think the difference is mainly attributable to the pickups.

As was mentioned earlier, the Geezer Butler pups should put you right in there. The rest is your amp and your playing technique. The guy in the vid seems to be a very aggressive player. Try really digging in first to see if that's all you need to get that sound.

 

[lz4005]

Assuming the pickups in that bass are even original.

And assuming they're all adjusted to the same height.
You're right about differences in pickup output. Particularly from Fender in the 70's.
I don't think they'd automated the turn counters on pickup winders at that point.
Also by the mid 70's Fender was doing lots of cost cutting, including sourcing woods and pickup materials from lower cost vendors. So there could be a lot of variation.

It's not a good idea to use that clip to say that all P's with that wood combination will sound the same. That one sounds good, but the next one off the line could have been a dud.
There's a lot of randomness in things made of wood.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

I play hard most of the time. I will try messing around with amp settings more at practice and see what I can get going.
Thanks for the comments. A lot of stuff that is kind of going through my head already and some nice points/suggestions.

 

[40Hz]

And assuming they're all adjusted to the same height.
You're right about differences in pickup output. Particularly from Fender in the 70's.
I don't think they'd automated the turn counters on pickup winders at that point.
Also by the mid 70's Fender was doing lots of cost cutting, including sourcing woods and pickup materials from lower cost vendors. So there could be a lot of variation.

It's not a good idea to use that clip to say that all P's with that wood combination will sound the same. That one sounds good, but the next one off the line could have been a dud.
There's a lot of randomness in things made of wood.

This x 1000!

No two Fender basses are ever exactly alike. Rest assured the absolute perfect Precision Bass is waiting for you out there somewhere. They've made thousands upon thousands of them over the years. The only challenge lies in finding it.

 

[Corey Y]

Inconsistency in materials, building technique and pickup winding is a huge part of the basis for vintage guitar and bass collecting. Touring musicians could visit a shop in every town and find one instrument out of 50 or 100 that played and sounded amazing. Same with pedals as well. A lot of manufacturers just grabbed whatever was in reach when a component ran out.

 

[Grapevine921]

I'm hearing a little more "clank" in the 77. I'd say set up is what's making the biggest difference in tone. Maybe buy some steel strings and lower your saddles a little more than you normally would.

 

[Bob Coldwell]

That is a really good video! Good consistent player with good technique. Great camera work. About as close to a controlled experiment as you can get. More than one variable, I suppose. And it's up to you to decide the differences and which one you like the best. But the thing I took home from it as that there are way more similarities than there are differences. I know: Duh, right? Again - very good video.

 

[Kerplunk]

It may just be a coincidence that the '77 has a maple fboard.

When I bought my P bass, in the early '80's, I went into a shop that had three second hand jazzes and four s/h P's. I tried them all acoustically before plugging them in. One in particular stood out in it's inherent resonance. In the end I bought that one. It was one of the cheapest of the lot. All I ever did to it was put in a Dimarzio pup and use Dean Markley Blue Steels. Still have and cherish my '75 all maple P.

 

[Mastermold]

In my experience, 70's P-bass pickups have a more middy tone (say than 60's P-basses which have more bottom) so that may be what you're hearing. Maybe try the TB classifieds, several guys here regularly flip old Fenders for reasonable coin.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

My 73 sounds just like that 77. It's just a bright trebly bass. I took the original pickups out and put SD Steve Harris pickups in and it's still really bright but the Steve's thickened it up a bit.

 

[Jim Carr]

I have had a lot of older and newer P-basses. I honestly believe that what you are seeking is available from EQ and technique. If not, it probably will not come across to the listener in an ensemble or studio situation.

BTW, the player in the demo changed his articulation from instrument to instrument enough to have made a significant (audible) difference in the tone, IMHO. Keep in mind, that no two basses of the same type and vintage sound exactly the same.