Jeff I don't want to open up a controversial subject but... what's your take on 5 or 6 string basses?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Hi from Jeff Berlin
- Thread starter JeffBerlin
- Start date
- Status
Thank you, sir, for that.
I recently started taking lessons again, working with a teacher who is focusing me back on modes and their applications (playing over changes) and helping me to break out of my patterns (and keeping me honest with working multiple keys).
It's not especially fast going - it seems the payoff will be in months, rather than the "instant gratification" one can get from stealing someone's youtube riffs
Your quote reminds me to be patient with it.
Thanks for that, and for coming on here to share your thoughts.
Here is an interesting point! Scales and modes are greatly over-rated. They are as important in music as verbs and adjectives are in English. There's a lot lot more to speaking English than learning these things and so there are a lot more things in music to learn as well.
I usually practice lines from non-bass players that I have transcribed. Or I will transcribe a solo of, say, someone like Keith Jarrett and work on that. Or, I will open up some Charlie Banacos material (the greatest music teacher who ever lived in my opinion. But Charlie is not for everybody. You have to know about music to take advantage of the things that he teaches.) Finally, I will work on either David Liebman or Jerry Bergonzi principles. This plus a healthy donation of time to composing makes for a full day for me.
Thank you for your words about the electric bass bias. My next question relates to this statement I quoted. What else would you recommend one studies? I personally am trying to escape the scale trap in my improvising. I spend a lot of time on arpeggios and transcribing. So like I stated earlier, what would you suggest one focus on?
Jeff, welcome. I hope you do drop by from time to time, it's nice to have a pro's perspective on all things bass.
You have said many things over the years that have gotten under the skin of some, yet you stand by these comments and opinions even though you know you have rubbed some the wrong way. I applaud your strength to stand by what you have said even though it has made you somewhat unpopular in the music world. As has been stated here over and over, your playing is amazing; your taste, time and feel are all world class and your comittment to expanding the role of the bass in particular is appreciated by many players.
Controversy leads to thought... Thought in itself does not always lead to change, but rather it opens up the opportunity for change. The controvery you bring is actually very good for music - the more we discuss the more open we become. I'm sure that you will find more people here on TB who actually welcome your opinions even if they don't believe what you do. It's healthy at times to disagree and as long as it can be kept on a adult level (not directed to you, but some here who prefer to act like children) it's a win for all of us.
Please come back often...
You have said many things over the years that have gotten under the skin of some, yet you stand by these comments and opinions even though you know you have rubbed some the wrong way. I applaud your strength to stand by what you have said even though it has made you somewhat unpopular in the music world. As has been stated here over and over, your playing is amazing; your taste, time and feel are all world class and your comittment to expanding the role of the bass in particular is appreciated by many players.
Controversy leads to thought... Thought in itself does not always lead to change, but rather it opens up the opportunity for change. The controvery you bring is actually very good for music - the more we discuss the more open we become. I'm sure that you will find more people here on TB who actually welcome your opinions even if they don't believe what you do. It's healthy at times to disagree and as long as it can be kept on a adult level (not directed to you, but some here who prefer to act like children) it's a win for all of us.
Please come back often...
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,222
- 45,015
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
OK - so for an intermediate player (to take your metaphor - someone who is conversant in English but not an eloquent speaker) - what else would you recommend that he study?
For myself, I've been working on phrasing and articulation a great deal.
But I'd love to get your thoughts on this.
Jeff Berlin.
Thank you for making yourself available. I only quickly scanned over this thread but this one caught my eye. I was hoping you could elaborate on what great lessons are.
and Double that one!
Great to have you here once again Jeff - I've been a huge fan for years (since I bought Pump It back in 90)...I bought your most recent DVD and I must say that I think it was a good idea not to have Rowdy Roddy Piper on this one...although it was cool to see him play bass with you
.Sorry. I was off line for a few minutes, I am back and I need a moment to read the previous comments. Apologies.
I don't feel that one plays better with more strings. But people seem to like the instrument. Just remember that if you practice on a five or six strings, you will have a lot more work to do that I will!!!!!!!
I've admittedly been pretty outspoken regarding the overdubs on some Norah Jones' tracks which are on the Jeff Berlin MySpace page, mainly not giving credit to the artist, etc. Can you offer insight into this?
Not trying to start anything, I'm genuinely curious.
Not trying to start anything, I'm genuinely curious.
Work on chord tones, There are no purer tonalities to work on in all of music.
Hi Jeff welcome back.
I've not read everything you've read but most of the stuff I've read regarding learning music I agree with. You remind me very much of a piano teacher I had back in Ft Lauderdale around 1972-73. Gary was very much about how to practice correctly and efficiently. It wasnt about how many hours you sat at the piano but what you did while you were there. Did you concentrate on working on what you didnt know or did you continue to play through the passages that you already could play. (Im paraphrasing of course, and this is almost 40 year later so.) Did you slow down and play them passages correctly or did you practice your mistakes? He was truly a passionate teacher (he was kick ass pianist too, FWIW.) and as we both know those who can play well arent always the best teachers. I sense you are also passionate about teaching and that more than anything else is what I admire about you.
Anyway, I sincerely wish I had met him earlier. Had I done so I think Id be a professional musician now (in some capacity) and much happier than I am. My failure to get that foundation of knowledge lead me to have to drop out of music school when it became clear to my professor how poor my reading skills were. (Actually it was rather miraculous that I managed to learn enough piano skills in a years time to pass my auditions at all.)
Fast forward many years - My son at age 10 says he wants to play bass and youd better believe I made darn sure he learned to read music. He got theory lessons and studied double bass with the best instructors I could find. And since this is a small college town that often included 3.5 hour drives (each way) to Chicago to study with Larry Gray, who as talented a teacher as he is a player (and thats a ton). I introduced him to as much good music as I could soul/rock/classical/jazz and everything in between.
Bottom line is that by getting that foundation early my son was able to audition and get into all the schools he wanted and is now a senior at the University of North Texas as jazz performance major studying with Lyn Seaton. Honestly Jeff, you could hire me for your school as an example of how not to become a musician. LOL!! Its a bitter pill for me to swallow but tolerable in knowing that I was able in some way to help my kids find something that they love to do.
What I discovered much later in life is that many who give up on a musical career would have had the same failure other careers had they taken the same lazy approach to other careers. As an accountant, doctor, lawyer, engineer, architect one has to know the language and theory, be versatile enough to cover anything in thrown at you and you have to be willing to take work that isnt always your preference. And you have to do it all with a good attitude and in a professional manner. So while I would much prefer to have been a CPA specializing in busty blond actresses Im often forced to do returns for cranky old ladies and gentleman.
P.S. Im pretty sure that Ive read you praise one of my early heros Jack Bruce and if thats so, I was wondering if youd ever met him, written an article on him, or if you would care to elaborate on what you admire in his playing?
P.S.S. My apologies for the length of post.
I've not read everything you've read but most of the stuff I've read regarding learning music I agree with. You remind me very much of a piano teacher I had back in Ft Lauderdale around 1972-73. Gary was very much about how to practice correctly and efficiently. It wasnt about how many hours you sat at the piano but what you did while you were there. Did you concentrate on working on what you didnt know or did you continue to play through the passages that you already could play. (Im paraphrasing of course, and this is almost 40 year later so.) Did you slow down and play them passages correctly or did you practice your mistakes? He was truly a passionate teacher (he was kick ass pianist too, FWIW.) and as we both know those who can play well arent always the best teachers. I sense you are also passionate about teaching and that more than anything else is what I admire about you.
Anyway, I sincerely wish I had met him earlier. Had I done so I think Id be a professional musician now (in some capacity) and much happier than I am. My failure to get that foundation of knowledge lead me to have to drop out of music school when it became clear to my professor how poor my reading skills were. (Actually it was rather miraculous that I managed to learn enough piano skills in a years time to pass my auditions at all.)
Fast forward many years - My son at age 10 says he wants to play bass and youd better believe I made darn sure he learned to read music. He got theory lessons and studied double bass with the best instructors I could find. And since this is a small college town that often included 3.5 hour drives (each way) to Chicago to study with Larry Gray, who as talented a teacher as he is a player (and thats a ton). I introduced him to as much good music as I could soul/rock/classical/jazz and everything in between.
Bottom line is that by getting that foundation early my son was able to audition and get into all the schools he wanted and is now a senior at the University of North Texas as jazz performance major studying with Lyn Seaton. Honestly Jeff, you could hire me for your school as an example of how not to become a musician. LOL!! Its a bitter pill for me to swallow but tolerable in knowing that I was able in some way to help my kids find something that they love to do.
What I discovered much later in life is that many who give up on a musical career would have had the same failure other careers had they taken the same lazy approach to other careers. As an accountant, doctor, lawyer, engineer, architect one has to know the language and theory, be versatile enough to cover anything in thrown at you and you have to be willing to take work that isnt always your preference. And you have to do it all with a good attitude and in a professional manner. So while I would much prefer to have been a CPA specializing in busty blond actresses Im often forced to do returns for cranky old ladies and gentleman.
P.S. Im pretty sure that Ive read you praise one of my early heros Jack Bruce and if thats so, I was wondering if youd ever met him, written an article on him, or if you would care to elaborate on what you admire in his playing?
P.S.S. My apologies for the length of post.
Thank you sir. You are very generous sharing your Saturday morning/afternoon with the talk bass community.
I recommend that you study music that you do not know. This is not a flippant remark. If you are an intermediate player, you were once a beginner. At that time, you studied music that got you to this point. There are teachers who can guide you further into more sophisticated lessons. But make sure that these lessons are music lessons.
I know you must be swamped Jeff, but when you get a chance I'd love to know your special recipe for this demonic rock tone
- Status
