High gain Rickenbacker pickups

[shrimpchowmein]

When did Ric start using the hi-gain bridge pickups? And what era is the vintage setting on the 4003s supposed to sound like?

The vintage setting on the 4003s doesn't sound anything like that 4001s I've played and owned, which have all been late 70s models.

What's the story?

 

[SGD Lutherie]

When did Ric start using the hi-gain bridge pickups? And what era is the vintage setting on the 4003s supposed to sound like?

The vintage setting on the 4003s doesn't sound anything like that 4001s I've played and owned, which have all been late 70s models.

What's the story?

In 1953 Paul Barth and John Hall Sr. build the first high gain pickups to replace the horseshoe pickups to make the guitars easier to play. John Hall jr. was a teenager at the time playing in garage bands, and was pressing his dad into winding hotter pickups. So over the years the pickups have gotten wound hotter. The horseshoe bridge pickup was phased out on the basses about 1971 and replaced with the hi-gain unit.

My two '73 Rics have a toaster at the neck and a hi-gain at the bridge. They read about 8k. When the 4001 was changed to the 4003 the pickups seems to have gotten hotter. At about '74 the neck toaster on the bass was replaced with the hi-gain pickup. One of my basses is a "transitional" bass lacking the checkerboard binding and with the newer bridge. But it still has the toaster.

As someone who played 4001s exclusively for about 16 years, I can say that the classic Ric tone lacks a little solid low end, and the bridge pickup with the cap is useless on it's own. But it's a classic sounding bass. I had modded my basses over the years because I wanted to get other tones, but now I'm resoring them to stock for that tone they do so well.

Some people have their pickups rewound to vintage specs to get that cleaner brighter tone with less low end. They break up better that way when you over drive them too.

 

[Korladis]

The rewinds I did was because they weren't getting a bright enough tone. The old bridge pickups are about 7-8k, and the new ones are about 12k.

Yeah, the 12k ones are a bit less trebly, but I actually like that extra low end grunt in the bridge pickup. Suits my needs perfectly.

But if someone's going for Geddy or Squire, I can see how it might be an obstacle.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Yeah, the 12k ones are a bit less trebly, but I actually like that extra low end grunt in the bridge pickup. Suits my needs perfectly.

But if someone's going for Geddy or Squire, I can see how it might be an obstacle.

I was surprised how much bass my bridge pickup got after I bypassed the cap back in the 70s. It got more lows than the toaster, which must be why they used the cap in the first place. It certainly didn't need to be wound hotter.

I don't know if Squire's bass has the cap because it was a mono Rose Morris 1999 bass that he rewired to stereo.

 

[ocoaibass]

I definitely prefer the bypassed cap sound. The hotter bridge pickups still have that Rick growl, but the extra bass is essential to me.

 

[Korladis]

I was surprised how much bass my bridge pickup got after I bypassed the cap back in the 70s. It got more lows than the toaster, which must be why they used the cap in the first place. It certainly didn't need to be wound hotter.

I don't know if Squire's bass has the cap because it was a mono Rose Morris 1999 bass that he rewired to stereo.

All I know is I love the sound of mine, which has the 11-12K bridge pickup, and the toaster top neck pickup.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I have two Rics. The newer 2009 4003 came stock with 2 hi-gains, and the vintage push/pull switch.

With the switch pushed in, the .0047 bridge pup cap is bypassed. Since both pups are sending out similar signals via parallel wiring, but sensing different parts of the strings, you get that Fender Jazz-like growl due to some phase canceling, also referred to as combing. But still a very Ric-ish growl. The hi-gains are great pups, just right for grindy, growly tones that can cut through the mix.

With the switch pulled out, the .0047 cap is now in-line with the bridge pup, acting as a hi-pass filter, cutting out approx 150hz and lower. The cap also shifts the phase of the bridge pup 90 degrees or so, eliminating any combing, so you get the pure effect of both pups. You can actually get more low fundamental out the neck pup if you dial down the bridge pup slightly. To test this, switch the toggle from both to neck and see if you hear a difference. If not, you have the bridge dialed down too far. Dial the bridge up a smidge until you begin to hear a slight difference when toggling between both and neck. That is close to the true vintage Ric sound.

I outfitted my other Ric, a 1993 4003s, with Ric re-issue pups, 11.7K horseshoe in the bridge; and 7.4K scatterwound toaster in the neck, routed to be in the older 1/2" position from the fretboard. The neck toaster has a different tonal quality than the hi-gain. I use this bass almost exclusively with the cap in. To overcome the output difference in pups, I just dial the bridge down further than on my other one. Now I've got about as close to that true vintage Ric tone as you can get without buying a vintage Ric.

But nothing will sound like a true vintage Ric. Even contemporary model have differences in tone. New maple is different from 1960's maple, and if yours had a neck with the shedua stripe, that alters tonal quality as well. Bridge metal was probably different, and pup winding have changed throughout the years as mentioned, along with different magnets, etc. Tone pots were once 500K, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Duke21]

I have two Rics. The newer 2009 4003 came stock with 2 hi-gains, and the vintage push/pull switch.

With the switch pushed in, the .0047 bridge pup cap is bypassed. Since both pups are sending out similar signals via parallel wiring, but sensing different parts of the strings, you get that Fender Jazz-like growl due to some phase canceling, also referred to as combing. But still a very Ric-ish growl. The hi-gains are great pups, just right for grindy, growly tones that can cut through the mix.

With the switch pulled out, the .0047 cap is now in-line with the bridge pup, acting as a hi-pass filter, cutting out approx 150hz and lower. The cap also shifts the phase of the bridge pup 90 degrees or so, eliminating any combing, so you get the pure effect of both pups. You can actually get more low fundamental out the neck pup if you dial down the bridge pup slightly. To test this, switch the toggle from both to neck and see if you hear a difference. If not, you have the bridge dialed down too far. Dial the bridge up a smidge until you begin to hear a slight difference when toggling between both and neck. That is close to the true vintage Ric sound.

I outfitted my other Ric, a 1993 4003s, with Ric re-issue pups, 11.7K horseshoe in the bridge; and 7.4K scatterwound toaster in the neck, routed to be in the older 1/2" position from the fretboard. The neck toaster has a different tonal quality than the hi-gain. I use this bass almost exclusively with the cap in. To overcome the output difference in pups, I just dial the bridge down further than on my other one. Now I've got about as close to that true vintage Ric tone as you can get without buying a vintage Ric.

But nothing will sound like a true vintage Ric. Even contemporary model have differences in tone. New maple is different from 1960's maple, and if yours had a neck with the shedua stripe, that alters tonal quality as well. Bridge metal was probably different, and pup winding have changed throughout the years as mentioned, along with different magnets, etc. Tone pots were once 500K, etc, etc, etc.

Great guide.
Agree on the modern tone mode with both pups on, sound quite much like a jazz but darker.

 

[jamro217]

I have two Rics. The newer 2009 4003 came stock with 2 hi-gains, and the vintage push/pull switch.

With the switch pushed in, the .0047 bridge pup cap is bypassed. Since both pups are sending out similar signals via parallel wiring, but sensing different parts of the strings, you get that Fender Jazz-like growl due to some phase canceling, also referred to as combing. But still a very Ric-ish growl. The hi-gains are great pups, just right for grindy, growly tones that can cut through the mix.

With the switch pulled out, the .0047 cap is now in-line with the bridge pup, acting as a hi-pass filter, cutting out approx 150hz and lower. The cap also shifts the phase of the bridge pup 90 degrees or so, eliminating any combing, so you get the pure effect of both pups. You can actually get more low fundamental out the neck pup if you dial down the bridge pup slightly. To test this, switch the toggle from both to neck and see if you hear a difference. If not, you have the bridge dialed down too far. Dial the bridge up a smidge until you begin to hear a slight difference when toggling between both and neck. That is close to the true vintage Ric sound.

I outfitted my other Ric, a 1993 4003s, with Ric re-issue pups, 11.7K horseshoe in the bridge; and 7.4K scatterwound toaster in the neck, routed to be in the older 1/2" position from the fretboard. The neck toaster has a different tonal quality than the hi-gain. I use this bass almost exclusively with the cap in. To overcome the output difference in pups, I just dial the bridge down further than on my other one. Now I've got about as close to that true vintage Ric tone as you can get without buying a vintage Ric.

But nothing will sound like a true vintage Ric. Even contemporary model have differences in tone. New maple is different from 1960's maple, and if yours had a neck with the shedua stripe, that alters tonal quality as well. Bridge metal was probably different, and pup winding have changed throughout the years as mentioned, along with different magnets, etc. Tone pots were once 500K, etc, etc, etc.

If you had a brand new bass made to the exact specs as an early '60's 4001, it will sound different than the one made in the early '60's. If you go 40 years into the future, it'll sound differently than it does today, due to aging.

 

[iiipopes]

In 1953 Paul Barth and John Hall Sr. build the first high gain pickups to replace the horseshoe pickups to make the guitars easier to play. John Hall jr. was a teenager at the time playing in garage bands, and was pressing his dad into winding hotter pickups. So over the years the pickups have gotten wound hotter. The horseshoe bridge pickup was phased out on the basses about 1971 and replaced with the hi-gain unit.

My two '73 Rics have a toaster at the neck and a hi-gain at the bridge. They read about 8k. When the 4001 was changed to the 4003 the pickups seems to have gotten hotter. At about '74 the neck toaster on the bass was replaced with the hi-gain pickup. One of my basses is a "transitional" bass lacking the checkerboard binding and with the newer bridge. But it still has the toaster.

As someone who played 4001s exclusively for about 16 years, I can say that the classic Ric tone lacks a little solid low end, and the bridge pickup with the cap is useless on it's own. But it's a classic sounding bass. I had modded my basses over the years because I wanted to get other tones, but now I'm resoring them to stock for that tone they do so well.

Some people have their pickups rewound to vintage specs to get that cleaner brighter tone with less low end. They break up better that way when you over drive them too.

Um, I think you had a mistype - 1973 for the hi-gains, not 1953. And it happened a little sooner than that, with two or three bobbin and pole piece variants in quick succession in the early '70's before the black button-tops became standard, including the small pole piece variant and the green bobbin variant.

Yes, '70's and '80's high gains had about 8 kohms' worth of wire on them, and they had a little more brightness and a little less cajones. I concur about the character of the tone described - the '76 4001 I used to own was the same way.

The toasters sound a little "smoother" because they are the same as the guitar pickups - 6 alnico slugs under the toaster cover, spreading the magnetic field, and the 4001 basses had the neck pickup a little closer to the neck. The hi-gains, having a single pole under each string, have a little more articulation in their tone, and are generally a tad farther away from the neck. The position also makes part of the difference between the hollow mellow tone with the 4001's with the toasters, and the 4001's & 3's with the hi-gain being a little farther south and therefore marginally more overtones in the tone.

The current hi-gains have adjustable poles and about 11 kohms' worth of the same wire that RIC has always used: 44 AWG. The new pickups are very versatile, and have a superlative tone of their own, as well as being able to get close to the other two classic tones: early hi-gains by raising the pole pieces, and toasters by lowering the pole pieces.

 

[da old guy]

Ok, well I ordered 1 from pickofthericks.com. If anyone's interested in the difference it makes, I'll try & post some follow ups/samples. I didn't record any before & afters for when I replaced the bridge pickup...

very interested to hear about the difference please !

 

[smtp4me]

The new pickups are very versatile, and have a superlative tone of their own, as well as being able to get close to the other two classic tones: early hi-gains by raising the pole pieces, and toasters by lowering the pole pieces.

Apologies for reviving a 3 year old thread/post - couldn't you achieve the same affect by lowering the pickup overall (further away from the strings) instead of adjusting individual pole pieces?

 

[Killed_by_Death]

passive pickups do not have gain

Ha, I came here to post this.

 

[Jeff Scott]

What do you mean by buck?

What do you mean by undertone?

You post doesn't make sense to me.

I think he meant undertaker, perhaps.

In 1953 Paul Barth and John Hall Sr. build...

Who was John Hall, Sr.?

 

[iiipopes]

I think he meant undertaker, perhaps.

Who was John Hall, Sr.?

I think he meant F. C. Hall, the father of the current owner of RIC, Mr. John Hall:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[bassmachine2112]

Hiho,I,m using a 99 at the moment and the pups are almost 14k suits me.
I just turn down the bass on my amp and the mids and top end just jump out.
I,m quiet happy with these pups you can get the older sound by lowering them.I howk them up till they start making funny noises and clicks then back em off a bit and that,s where I like them.
I have noticed over the years that they are sensitive to amps and cabs,they sound amazing with a few and ok with the rest.My squeeze is Orange heads and cabs especially OBC115.