High Mass Bridges vs. Vintage Bridges

[mongo2]

To a particular individual, "different" doesn't always mean "better".

+1

 

[bjabass]

Problem is, there *are* no two identical Fenders or Squiers. Look at the huge variations in wood, for instance, and the wood will likely make a lot more difference than the bridges.

Yet another theory I would like to test, two 'same model' Fenders, blindfold, plug in to same amp same settings multiple times each, identify which bass is which accurately and consistently.

 

[tangentmusic]

I think that may be where the difference in opinions here lies.
The question to me would be, is it an actual "improvement" or merely "different"? To a particular individual, "different" doesn't always mean "better".

Totally depends on what someone considers an improvement or better.
Cliff, I know you play a P with a mute. This is the tone or sound you're after, so playing a J with a HMB may not be an improvement to your ears, probably not better to your style or tastes, but different.
To me and the tone i'm utilizing, it's an improvement.
Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks

 

[michaeln]

Here is a useless data point. The 50s Classic Vibe HiMass bridge I ordered on EBay just arrived this afternoon. I removed the standard bridge from my Squier Vintage Modified Precision and weighed it and the HM:

Standard: 101 grams
HiMass: 195 grams.

Although they both have five mounting holes, the spacing between the hole centers is just ever so slightly wider on the HM bridge. The center screw went in, the next two farther out went in at just a slight angle. The center of the two outer holes was at the edge of the bridge holes, and the screws weren't going to go in. I drilled new holes, filled the old ones with broken off toothpicks, and mounted the last two screws.

The difference in sound? None whatsoever, as far as I can tell. The HM bridge *looks* a lot nicer though, and the elevation screws for the saddles ride in little channels. That should keep the saddles from moving side to side, but the stock saddles on the stock bridge didn't move side to side either, because they lay right next to each other.

So, aside from the (IMO) improved look and the lightening of my wallet my thirty-some-odd dollars, no significant change.

Now this might be placebo effect too. I didn't expect to hear a change and I don't. Maybe it sounds way, way better, with richer, more explosive lows and crystalline highs.

I doubt it though.

Now to get some decent CRS (Can't Remember $hit) pots and a Switchcraft "input jack" and a bogus Fender headstock decal!

 

[michaeln]

Today my set of Hipshot HB6C 1/2" tuners showed up and I put them on. Yes, there are 16 unused screw holes showing on the rear of the headstock.

I don't care.

The HB6Cs don't quite fill the full diameter of the hole in the headstock. I wrapped the cylindrical nuts with black electrical tape to shim up the diameter difference. It doesn't show and it will be workable until I come up with something better to use as shims.

The combination of the MUCH lighter Hipshot Ultralight tuners and the somewhat heavier bridge has done wonders for the balance of the bass, and I am quite pleased about that.

 

[madmatt]

I have a BadAss2 on my '86 Fender MIJ P. It is great with flats.

 

[tangentmusic]

Today my set of Hipshot HB6C 1/2" tuners showed up and I put them on. Yes, there are 16 unused screw holes showing on the rear of the headstock.

I don't care.

The HB6Cs don't quite fill the full diameter of the hole in the headstock. I wrapped the cylindrical nuts with black electrical tape to shim up the diameter difference. It doesn't show and it will be workable until I come up with something better to use as shims.

The combination of the MUCH lighter Hipshot Ultralight tuners and the somewhat heavier bridge has done wonders for the balance of the bass, and I am quite pleased about that.

Cool. Another player that feels a heavier bridge is beneficial to their tone. At least I dont feel so isolated on this topic now..

 

[michaeln]

I don't think the heavier bridge had any effect whatsoever on tone. When I said "balance" I meant physical balance, ie: I lightened one end of the bass and made the other end a little heavier. It lessens the "neck dive" effect.

 

[Bijoux]

I changed the bridge on my jazz bass, and I made a couple of youtube videos to be somewhat compare the sound. And I think that they did sound different.
But in my opinion. That is it. Not really better or worse. In my opinion it's more like a matter of taste. In fact I still have two other Jazz basses with vintage bridges and they will stay that way.

 

[tangentmusic]

I don't think the heavier bridge had any effect whatsoever on tone. When I said "balance" I meant physical balance, ie: I lightened one end of the bass and made the other end a little heavier. It lessens the "neck dive" effect.

My bad... Back to my island then...

 

[honeyiscool]

I would really like for there to be an aftermarket supplier of the smaller MM style bridges. They're my favorite kind of bridge and it's sad that you can't put them on other basses.

 

[Turnaround]

We go around on this question a few times a year. By now we should understand the variables and the subjective reactions. I will summarize.

A High Mass Bridge will tend to transfer less energy to the body of an instrument than a Low Mass Bridge (I will use the acnonyms HMB and LMB from here on). There are two main consequences of this effect.

First is that the string will vibrate longer if its energy is not being drained into the body of the instrument. That is to say a HMB will "sustain" longer than a LMB.

Secondly, if less energy is being transmitted to the instrument body, then the body will have less effect on the sound produced. So if you are looking for a natural woodiness in your tone, a HMB is probably the wrong way to go.

Conversely, the more a bridge is able to transfer energy to the body of the instrument, the more "woody" the tone (if the body is wood).

A Fender Precision bass is a good platform for illustrating these differences. By it's very nature the Precision is an instrument with a pronounced midrange. That midrange gives the instrument it's "throatiness", like saying "ahh" with your tongue pulled back into you throat as opposed to saying "ahh" with your tongue sticking out.

That sound is nicely enhanced when the resonant quality of the wood is exploited. That indicates the use of a LMB.

Back when I was in my teens and Rock was getting away from Rock and Roll and into the "heavy" stuff, a lot of players were looking for a sound with more sustain, more punch, more drive. And HMB's were born. Served us well too.

So which is better? That's an invalid question. Better for whom/what? Better for sound? Sustain? Looks? Weight? Even these questions are invalid.

Sound: I like a woody throaty sound. Ted likes a hard, driving sound.

Sustain: I like to play with flats and often use palm muting. Joe wants his to sustain forever.

Punch: I want something warm and caressing. Al wants each note to whack the listener in the chest.

So in the end we know there are differences in behaviour of HMB's and LMB's. And we know we have differing tastes.

So the right answer to the question "should I buy a high mass bridge is "definitely maybe".

 

[tangentmusic]

Turnaround,

Thank you

 

[Turnaround]

You are entirely welcome. Sometimes I feel like I am only talking to myself. Nice to know someone heard occasionally and that they found what I had to say at all useful.

 

[ubnomnar]

The HB6Cs don't quite fill the full diameter of the hole in the headstock. I wrapped the cylindrical nuts with black electrical tape to shim up the diameter difference. It doesn't show and it will be workable until I come up with something better to use as shims.

I used aluminum ducting tape to wrap the nut sleeve and take up the "slack." Copper shielding tape would also work very nicely.

I prefer the traditional looks and functional string spacing adjustment of the threaded saddle Fender bridge. I replaced the Badass bridge on my MIM Dirnt Precision and "thought" it sounded better to me.

I would like to replace the high mass bridges on my two CV Squire basses just to get rid of the 20mm string spacing.

 

[michaeln]

Isn't different string spacing going to affect where the strings pass over the pickup pole pieces? Maybe it doesn't matter to you?

 

[Batmensch]

String/pickup pole alignment isn't all that critical. You can be a little off without it affecting your sound.

 

[maturanesa]

The 201's tone was much heavier/bassier sounding than I suspected...

(I'm just bored right now. Looking for something to talk about).

That can be an improve for somebody...

 

[maturanesa]

We go around on this question a few times a year. By now we should understand the variables and the subjective reactions. I will summarize.

A High Mass Bridge will tend to transfer less energy to the body of an instrument than a Low Mass Bridge (I will use the acnonyms HMB and LMB from here on). There are two main consequences of this effect.

First is that the string will vibrate longer if its energy is not being drained into the body of the instrument. That is to say a HMB will "sustain" longer than a LMB.

Secondly, if less energy is being transmitted to the instrument body, then the body will have less effect on the sound produced. So if you are looking for a natural woodiness in your tone, a HMB is probably the wrong way to go.

Conversely, the more a bridge is able to transfer energy to the body of the instrument, the more "woody" the tone (if the body is wood).

A Fender Precision bass is a good platform for illustrating these differences. By it's very nature the Precision is an instrument with a pronounced midrange. That midrange gives the instrument it's "throatiness", like saying "ahh" with your tongue pulled back into you throat as opposed to saying "ahh" with your tongue sticking out.

That sound is nicely enhanced when the resonant quality of the wood is exploited. That indicates the use of a LMB.

Back when I was in my teens and Rock was getting away from Rock and Roll and into the "heavy" stuff, a lot of players were looking for a sound with more sustain, more punch, more drive. And HMB's were born. Served us well too.

So which is better? That's an invalid question. Better for whom/what? Better for sound? Sustain? Looks? Weight? Even these questions are invalid.

Sound: I like a woody throaty sound. Ted likes a hard, driving sound.

Sustain: I like to play with flats and often use palm muting. Joe wants his to sustain forever.

Punch: I want something warm and caressing. Al wants each note to whack the listener in the chest.

So in the end we know there are differences in behaviour of HMB's and LMB's. And we know we have differing tastes.

So the right answer to the question "should I buy a high mass bridge is "definitely maybe".

Perfect. But maybe i percieve you are saying "black or white" with your comparison. Is not a grey?. A bridge that can give you some of both worlds ??? Maybe a medium mass bridge

 

[walterw]

Perfect. But maybe i percieve you are saying "black or white" with your comparison. Is not a grey?. A bridge that can give you some of both worlds ??? Maybe a medium mass bridge

that might be the music man bridge: it's bent steel and hollow round saddles, but all of thick metal.

i like the idea of low-mass but string-through; the "mass" of the bridge is the entire body.