Home Rehearsal HELP!

[twhitedc]

I'm assuming this is the MOST appropriate forum for this question...

Asking for a friend.... Well asking for my guitarist which will benefit me as well.
Posting his text below, he is not after full soundproofing, just doesn't want to audible from inside the adjacent homes, all of which are freestanding dwellings.

Thanks in Advance!

-> I am finishing the attic space above an attached two car garage. My goal is to be able to have band practice up there (2 guitars, bass, drums, PA) and have it low enough to not rattle my neighbors’ homes during reasonable hours.

I don’t expect it to be 100% sound proof, or even close - but if I can get it to reasonable where sounds comparable to a loud stereo or less from the street I would be ecstatic. The closest neighbors are 25-30' away from the attic space and they are the ones MOST likely to have an issue.

I did some research, but not enough research on sound proofing before starting the project with a family member / contractor. Lesson learned on my side; no room within a room or resilient channel or anything was done.

Also, due to a subsequent miscommunication and me being busy with work and life. I wound up with 4” of closed cell spray foam along the ceiling instead of open cell, and 1/2” sheet rock instead of 5/8”. The exterior vertical walls, knee walls, and roof peak got rockwool in addition to the close cell spray behind it on the ceiling (being an attic space the ceiling extends from the peak to the floor, with knee walls and a flat ceiling framed out - see photos)

My question is: Given my goals above (not 100% soundproof, just enough to be a good neighbor)- should I:

-Count my losses, finish as is and forget the band room
-green glue + second layer of 5/8 sheet rock
-green glue + quiet rock as second layer
- other ?

Basically we've got 1/2” sheet rock throughout, spray foam on the entire ceiling from peak to floor, rockwool in all the knee walls and the flat roof peak and the exterior vertical window wall. The sections of the ceiling on the 45 angle are the only locations that ONLY have spray foam behind the sheet rock. The rest has rockwool or rockwool AND spray foam. I plan on building some contraption to block the window when playing. The roof is regular asphalt shingles and the vertical wall exterior is T111 hardie cement board. The sides with the 45 degree pitch are the ones the facing the neighbors.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

[AGCurry]

I think the only way to truly soundproof a room is to basically build a room inside the room. The foam doesn't help - just an air space will do.

 

[SoCal80s]

A second layer of sheetrock (or similar) would certainly help. The window will be your biggest issue. You can build some baffles behind and around the drums to direct the sound away from the sensitive neighbor and also point the amps away from the neighbor. For the PA, I would go with one small floor monitor for each band member instead of PA mains to keep the overall volume down.

 

[twhitedc]

A second layer of sheetrock (or similar) would certainly help. The window will be your biggest issue. You can build some baffles behind and around the drums to direct the sound away from the sensitive neighbor and also point the amps away from the neighbor. For the PA, I would go with one small floor monitor for each band member instead of PA mains to keep the overall volume down.

Great suggestions, I know he plans to cover the window, and the plan would be to do Green glue then sheetrock (2 applications if it really made a difference)

Thanks!

 

[SoonerBill]

We use quite a bit of this stuff at work. It stops pretty loud noise from getting out of the room.

 

[twhitedc]

A second layer of sheetrock (or similar) would certainly help. The window will be your biggest issue. You can build some baffles behind and around the drums to direct the sound away from the sensitive neighbor and also point the amps away from the neighbor. For the PA, I would go with one small floor monitor for each band member instead of PA mains to keep the overall volume down.

Any thoughts on recessed lighting being a path of lest resistance?

 

[silky smoove]

he is not after full soundproofing, just doesn't want to audible from inside the adjacent homes, all of which are freestanding dwellings.

This is a much bigger ask than your friend is thinking. The "doesn't want to be audible from inside the adjacent homes" is more or less what many consider to be "fully soundproof."

My goal is to be able to have band practice up there (2 guitars, bass, drums, PA) and have it low enough to not rattle my neighbors’ homes during reasonable hours.

I would emphasise the "reasonable hours" portion of that sentence for your friend. This project will be more complicated and expensive than they're thinking. Instead I always advocate for sound isolating socially as opposed to physically whenever possible. Have a friendly conversation with the neighbors. Establish acceptable hours and duration for holding rehearsals. Provide them a phone number they can call to reach your friend if the noise gets out of hand before they resort to calling the police. Bring them cookies, beer, wine, etc. for this conversation to help make them more agreeable.

The closest neighbors are 25-30' away from the attic space and they are the ones MOST likely to have an issue.

At 30' any transmitted sound will be down quite a bit. Research the inverse square law for how this functions. Assuming a 100db rehearsal (measured at 3' from the source) and 30' of separation you'll reduce that 100db to 80db which will then be further reduced by the transmission loss characteristics of the wall assembly at your friend's house, any interrupting surfaces outside the two houses (trees, other structures, etc.), and the wall assembly at your friend's neighbor's house. This will be helpful, but won't be a total solution as anyone who's hosted a band rehearsal already knows.

-Count my losses, finish as is and forget the band room

Instead of forgetting the band room there are other things that can be done to help without sound isolation. Electronic drum kits, amp modelers and good headphones will make it near silent except for vocals. That's a big change from what they were likely expecting, but sometimes a functional compromise is worth it to have a rehearsal space. It'll also make it more pleasant for people in the house not involved in the band.

-green glue + second layer of 5/8 sheet rock

This is very effective, particularly if Green Glue sealant is used at the edges and at any joints. Be sure and stagger the seams with the ones already installed whereever possible. Things like light switches, electrical outlet, door and window trim, crown molding, base trim, light fixtures, HVAC registers, thermostats, etc. will all need to be adjusted to the new wall face which is a major pain, not to mention mudding, taping and painting, which is... ugh...

-green glue + quiet rock as second layer

Avoid Quiet Rock. It doesn't perform appreciably better than regular Type X drywall and Green Glue.

I plan on building some contraption to block the window when playing.

This will be a major challenge and definite source of TL problems. Short of using an isolation window I would expect a lot of sound to just blow right through anything built as a "contraption."

Any thoughts on recessed lighting being a path of lest resistance?

It is definitely a weak point in the TL characteristics of the room. Recessed lighting in a sound isolation assembly is a poor choice. At the very least it should have been installed with a fire-rated putty pad around the back of it. This will likely be impossible to address at this point short of tearing out the existing drywall which is likely not an attractive thing to consider at this point.

Lastly, and not having been discussed thus far: What is the HVAC situation in the room? That can be as big of a weak point for TL as anything in the assembly. Addressing this is complicated, expensive and largely misunderstood (or not understood at all) by HVAC installers.

 

[silky smoove]

We use quite a bit of this stuff at work. It stops pretty loud noise from getting out of the room.

View attachment 4881769

It will not effect transmission loss in any measurable amount. It will serve as an acoustic treatment within the space for frequencies above the midbass, but that's about it.

 

[SoonerBill]

It will not effect transmission loss in any measurable amount. It will serve as an acoustic treatment within the space for frequencies above the midbass, but that's about it.

As I said. We have rooms at work that when being used you can't hear yourself think inside. But right outside you hear almost nothing. The rooms were regular offices before being used as training rooms and the panels are the only thing being used. So that's not my experience with the product.

 

[silky smoove]

As I said. We have rooms at work that when being used you can't hear yourself think inside. But right outside you hear almost nothing. The rooms were regular offices before being used as training rooms and the panels are the only thing being used. So that's not my experience with the product.

I'd look at other factors that created the isolation. Every expert in the field will tell you the same thing: Foam has almost no mass, and without mass there is no mechanism for sound isolation when adding material.

 

[TerribleTim68]

As a former professional Union drywall finisher, please tell me you aren't planning on just gluing another layer of drywall on top of the existing layer of drywall. Use fasteners. If you don't, eventually the drywall will start falling off as it comes apart inside itself due to its own weight and the amount of vibration from band practice, especially on those sloped portions.

 

[silky smoove]

please tell me you aren't planning on just gluing another layer of drywall on top of the existing layer of drywall.

The term "green glue" refers to this product: Invalid Link Removed

It is a damping compound (the process of converting sound conducting vibrations into silent thermal energy). It is not an adhesive. Fasteners are still used in the normal fashion when Green Glue is present.

 

[Windowliquor]

My old band used to practice in the basement of my Baltimore row home. We built the “room with in a room,” including a floating floor “shimmed” with 2x6 pieces at the corners and edges to minimize direct contact with the basement floor. The wall stringers were 2x6s with 2x4 studs staggered on the inner and outer edges(see my super cruddy “illustration”). We wove regular insulation between the studs, and drywalled the whole shebang inside and out. Installed a cheap prehung door covered in carpet scraps(both sides), and put a wall AC unit in. Practiced there for a full 2 years at all hours of the day and my neighbors had ZERO idea until they saw us hauling out amps and gear for a show one night.

 

[azureblue]

my two cents is to go electronic and headphones, Don't forget - you will have to haul gear up and down stairs and that gets old quick.

 

[twhitedc]

We do that anyway. I keep telling myself that it will get easier if I keep doing it, but I feel like running up stairs with an 410 year as easier 15 years ago.

 

[Chrisk-K]

You will have unhappy, angry neighbors unless you build a soundproof room inside the attic or go fully electronic and headphones.

 

[BAG]

Some of your issues will depend on what your neighbours are like.

My studio at home is a converted old garage build of besser block, lines with approx. 2" thick polystyrene and finished with 10mm plywood on the walls and all windows are double glazed, so it's probably more insulated that what you have.
It is far from being "soundproof" and the wife can hear drums in the loungeroom of the main house at times (so she's sitting around 50' from the studio) and this is a pretty quiet band.

We live on a back section meaning we are literally surrounded by other homes and effectively share our fences with about 10 other homes all up. I am lucky that the closest neighbour is also the most chill. The previous tenants in the home were all young blokes in their mid 20's who partied hard and long most weekends and for three days non-stop on long weekends. What little noise they can hear from the studio now is nothing compared to what they all had to put up with prior to us, so in that way I'm lucky that the previous tenants made our noise seem like nothing. I've never had a complaint, even during my 50th birthday celebrations where we jammed four nights in a row until around 3am.

 

[Egg250]

Acoustic tiles are used in elevator mechanical rooms to deaden the sound. Do the same to the practice space. Don't forget to place these on the door as well. This would deaden the sound heard outside quite a bit. A cheaper route would be to go to IEMs and play without amps. The only noise to be heard would be unamplified vocals and drums.

 

[Oldbasslover]

As an old guy trying to preserve his hearing, why do you need a PA? Set the volume of the amps low enough so the vocals carry over them (unless your vocalists have no diaphragms and can’t sing with any stage volume - then you need a PA - then PA volume enough to be like a singer who has a diaphragm), drummer either has skills to play softly, or an electronic set. If you are needing to crank, what’s the point? You won’t be able to hear well anyways, except what your overloaded ears are telling you (likely highly inaccurate). Our ears are highly subjective and at higher volumes have less ability to discriminate. If it sounds great at low volumes, it will be great at higher volumes, until the point that the hearing can’t discriminate and then who cares? IMHO, I’ve never heard a band that sounded good in a bar or restaurant that played loudly. It’s just a din of noise.

The other obvious advantage is it won’t cost you anything to turn the volume down… And you will still be able to hear past 60…

 

[mikewalker]

I have a three story building with standard crappy 2x4 walls. It's 1 metre from the property line with my neighbour's back yard, some 20 feet from his back deck. I wanted to build a drum room on the ground floor. To get suitable broadband (especially low frequency!) isolation (I needed an extra 66dB isolation!) ... I had to shield that room with extra double walls framed inside - and 4.5 tonnes of drywall (and several cases of "vibration damping green glue"). That room is only about 25 x 16 feet (less one foot all around the interior after the inner walls were built!) But anyway, that was a lot of drywall - and that MASS is what gives you the low-frequency absorption!