Hotone Gate used as HPF

[JohnArnson]

Pedal owner here, 'tis indeed a hpf/lpf.

So from your experience with the Gate pedal it actually works fine with this purpose in mind, confirming the experience "Basst Scho" had, even if it doesn't seem to be in line with what "Hypocrite" says?

I mean if you too can confirm that it actually works well as a HPF, "Hypocrite" might just have got a pedal with a faulty HPF.

 

[Pulverizor]

Mine removes the bass when the cut button is depressed and the dial turned gradually clockwise.
It may be perceived as a bass boost if turned counter-clockwise.

In my opinion it will not do what you require it for, the roll-off slope is not as steep as other products on the market such as Thumpinator and the Broughton.
Also, unless you're running enormous cabs that are putting out significant volume at 40Hz you may not notice an audible effect of any HPF at all.

I tune E standard/Drop-D and have the HPF set around 80-100Hz to get the desired effect.
Buy it for the noise gate though, it's good.

 

[Hypocrite]

It's entirely possible mine is faulty in some way, but I mainly got it for the noise gate feature, and it does that well. I genuinely can't hear any difference when turning the two knobs, but if it works for you, great

 

[JohnArnson]

Mine removes the bass when the cut button is depressed and the dial turned gradually clockwise.
It may be perceived as a bass boost if turned counter-clockwise.

In my opinion it will not do what you require it for, the roll-off slope is not as steep as other products on the market such as Thumpinator and the Broughton.
Also, unless you're running enormous cabs that are putting out significant volume at 40Hz you may not notice an audible effect of any HPF at all.

I tune E standard/Drop-D and have the HPF set around 80-100Hz to get the desired effect.
Buy it for the noise gate though, it's good.

Thank you for clarifying that for good.

I think I might end up getting a Zoom B1 Four digital multi effect instead, which have a dedicated HPF build in that can be set at a cut off frequency down from 20Hz up to 640Hz, and it's cheap enough to actually cost less than a dedicated proper analog HPF would, like the Thumpinator or Broughton.

Also the B1 Four actually wouldn't take up considerably more space, as it is only just slightly bigger than the size of 2 Boss pedals, I would be able to use the other effects it offers as well, just always making sure to include the HPF in the patches I use, and the effects it has build in uses the same newer, more advanced and better sounding modeling technology as the bigger Zoom B3n multi effect, that cost about twice as much.

Of course the effects of the Zoom are not quite of the same quality as the much more expensive Line 6 Helix effects for instance, but they do basically utilize the same principals of emulating the behaviour of the individual electronic components of the original effects they seek to emulate, rather than just attempting to produce the same sound, which is how the emulations used for the effects in the older Zoom B3 multi effect and Zoom CDR-70 multi stomp box work.

Beside when exclusively using the B1 Four as a HPF the quality of the digital emulations of the pedal in general shouldn't really matter, as long as the analog to digital signal conversion is good, which, as far as I am informed, should be as good as any other digital pedals that use a 44.1KHz 24 bit converter.

 

[Zbysek]

Sure, but I felt it was irrelevant for the discussion

My post was just a clarification for those who are not familiar with Broughton...

I am not sure where does the information about 3db for Hotone come from (the manual doesn't contain it) or what it is supposed to mean...but if it is meant "per octave" than I consider it highly relevant for this thread.

The steepness of the slope is a crucial aspect of a high pass filter. Bass players usually require 2nd order filters (12db/oct) or 4th order filters (24db/oct).

3 db/oct is not enough for bass amplification.

IMHO, IME.

 

[Zbysek]

In my opinion it will not do what you require it for, the roll-off slope is not as steep as other products on the market such as Thumpinator and the Broughton.

Do you know what is the slope of the filter? I was not able to find this info... Thanks.

 

[Pulverizor]

Do you know what is the slope of the filter? I was not able to find this info... Thanks.

No I don't, haven't been able to find it. Seems more effective than -3db/octave though.
Maybe that info hasn't been published?
I do recommend it for the budget conscious buyer, works well live.

 

[Hypocrite]

My post was just a clarification for those who are not familiar with Broughton...

I am not sure where does the information about 3db for Hotone come from (the manual doesn't contain it) or what it is supposed to mean...but if it is meant "per octave" than I consider it highly relevant for this thread.

The steepness of the slope is a crucial aspect of a high pass filter. Bass players usually require 2nd order filters (12db/oct) or 4th order filters (24db/oct).

3 db/oct is not enough for bass amplification.

IMHO, IME.

Good point, I could have sworn I saw 3dB somewhere, but now it's nowhere to be found.
And what I meant by relevance is I thought it obvious when talking about filters that it's per octave

 

[Zbysek]

And what I meant by relevance is I thought it obvious when talking about filters that it's per octave

OK, fair enough.

 

[TonH]

A few weeks ago I bought a Broughton HPF to cure my Ampeg B2-48 from boomy sound (and SVT48HE cab). That works fine with the HPF set at about 50Hz.

This weekend I also ordered the Hotone Gate as an extra HPF/LPF and for the gate function.

It just arrived and I did a quick test/comparison. To get the same result in removing boomy-ness I had to set the Hotone gate at 100HZ, so I think the Hotone is 6db/oct, a first order filter.
It just works fine for bass, and I could give it some more bass without boom by turning up the bass on the EQ.

The LPF also works, but I think that's also a first order filter. I could hear it working by listen to a MP3 (Lady Marmalade by Moulin Rouge) and using the tweeter in the combo and cab.

The gate works very easy and can also remove single coil noise.

I am gonna keep this Hotone for it's gate function but also for the HPF and LPF.

I gonna do some more testing/comparsion this week (different amps/cabs/bass) and will report here.

Good point, I could have sworn I saw 3dB somewhere, but now it's nowhere to be found.

Maybe here in the comment/info section for this YouTube video?

 

[Pulverizor]

'HOTONE AUDIO Noise Gate with Parametric EQ, 3 DB cut Boost'
I hope that's not you because this guy is clueless!

 

[Zbysek]

It just arrived and I did a quick test/comparison. To get the same result in removing boomy-ness I had to set the Hotone gate at 100HZ, so I think the Hotone is 6db/oct, a first order filter.

That's sounds likely...

 

[TonH]

I did a little/quick test with a function generator and a Voltmeter. I tested both the Broughton HPF and the Hotone Gate.

The input was about 0.557 Volt that I measured with the HPF in Bypass.
The other voltages are measured at different frequencies from 10Hz to 160Hz. I did 2 tests for each HPF with the pot at 40Hz and at 120Hz.
Here are the results:

Is I am not wrong, a factor of 4 represents a cut of 12dB/oct and a factor of 2 represents a cut of 6dB/oct.
So my conclusion is that the Hotone Gate cuts at 6dB/oct.
I also see some gain with the Hotone HPF (pot at 40Hz) in the 80-160Hz range.
Please note that this is just a quick test not executed under LAB-conditions and I didn't do a test from 10Hz to 20kHz!

 

[UncleDoug]

Hi folks,
About the mysterious 3db figure... I think HPFs and LPFs quote the frequency at which the signal has been attenuated by 3db. So a HPF set at 80hz means it starts to cut higher than that and that by 80hz the signal is 3db lower.
For a 6db per octave filter set to 80hz that means 80hz is half an octave below the start point (because 3 is half of 6). So, setting it to 80 means you start to cut at 106hz and by 53hz you have lost the full 6db and by 26hz youd be 12db down.

I'd be interested to know from wiser friends if this is right, but it's what I've picked up from reading about filters .. and hopefully a decent debut post on talkbass

 

[Stumbo]

Hi folks,
About the mysterious 3db figure... I think HPFs and LPFs quote the frequency at which the signal has been attenuated by 3db. So a HPF set at 80hz means it starts to cut higher than that and that by 80hz the signal is 3db lower.
For a 6db per octave filter set to 80hz that means 80hz is half an octave below the start point (because 3 is half of 6). So, setting it to 80 means you start to cut at 106hz and by 53hz you have lost the full 6db and by 26hz youd be 12db down.

I'd be interested to know from wiser friends if this is right, but it's what I've picked up from reading about filters .. and hopefully a decent debut post on talkbass

Maybe @fdeck or @Passinwind might stop by.
You might Check out my TB Wiki on the topic.

 

[fdeck]

Hi folks,
About the mysterious 3db figure... I think HPFs and LPFs quote the frequency at which the signal has been attenuated by 3db. So a HPF set at 80hz means it starts to cut higher than that and that by 80hz the signal is 3db lower.
For a 6db per octave filter set to 80hz that means 80hz is half an octave below the start point (because 3 is half of 6). So, setting it to 80 means you start to cut at 106hz and by 53hz you have lost the full 6db and by 26hz youd be 12db down.

I'd be interested to know from wiser friends if this is right, but it's what I've picked up from reading about filters .. and hopefully a decent debut post on talkbass

Welcome to TB! You're basically correct. The -3 dB point has been a convention for characterizing filters and response curves -- both for audio and non-audio use -- since the dawn of time. But what happens above that point depends on the filter design.

I dug up a set of measured response curve for a filter-that-shall-not-be-named. The curves are different knob positions on the adjustable filter, and I measured it in order to confirm my expectations.

Filter designers try to control the shape of the so called "knee" based on the anticipated use of the filter. It's possible to design a filter that's nearly flat and then sinks like a stone below the -3 dB point, but it adds complexity (and power consumption) to an analog filter, or is preferably implemented in the digital domain.

So far as the audible response is concerned, -3 dB isn't a lot, and by the time you hit the first harmonic, the filter is flat for all intents and purposes. 1 dB is roughly the threshold for being able to hear differences, and that's when the sound isn't being masked by a bunch of harmonics and other stuff. Folks have talked about, and asked for, filters with a lower cutoff. It's certainly an easy modification, but I'm not sure the audible difference is drastic.

 

[UncleDoug]

Thanks for the warm welcome @fdeck, and the enlightenment.
Doug

 

[Btbp]

You might Check out my TB Wiki on the topic.

That is excellent, thanks for that, and to the other contributors