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Hotone Loudster (and NPAD!)

Smokey P

Smokey P

Jul 20, 2021
685
1,138
#1
After wanting an Arkham Oracle something bad for about 2 year I now have one and it is BEAUTIFUL! Thru the “power amp in” jack on the back of my ampeg PF500 it is totally glorious! However, for most gigs and rehearsals I just use a tc bam200, plenty of power and unremarkable for what I use it for. My problem is that when I plug the Oracle into the main input of the TC bam200 the preamp of the TC absolutely SUCKS ALL THE TONE out of the Oracle and makes it basically sound like the TC with maybe a little something, very different from the 3D extra warm slamming tone I get when using the power amp section of my ampeg. So I perceive the problem to just be that the TC’s preamp EQ just doesn’t jive with the Oracle. So I am looking for a very compact power amp for small gigs and rehearsal and the Hotone Loudster seems like it would fit the bill. Does anyone have experience using the Hotone Loudster for bass? Any reason to think that it wouldn’t work or would be tuned with an eq curve that’s unfriendly to bass? Or any reason to think it wouldn’t sound more similar to the power amp section in the ampeg (just obviously with ten times less power). Seems like it’s advertised for guitar because it’s relatively low power, but the 40watts into 8ohms should be fine for the small stuff.

0238C15E-9F63-4E2E-B379-011B07C52A6C.jpeg
 
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#6
gtirard said:
Good question... following...

I wouldn't dare plugin such a great preamp into such a cheap power amp, but why not?

Why don't you just buy it from Thomann and return it if you don't like it?
Click to expand...
Why not though? Genuinely wondering, this is my first time doing the preamp/power amp thing so I’m new to it. My impression is that most class D power amp sections are basically the same (ICE) unit? I figured this one’s just cheap because it’s low powered and made by a budget import company. Is there a danger to it like it would fry my Oracle? Or a reason it would just sound bad? Like I said, basically looking for the tone the power amp section of my ampeg has, just quieter and significantly smaller lol. Thanks!
 
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#7
Smokey P said:
Why not though? Genuinely wondering, this is my first time doing the preamp/power amp thing so I’m new to it. My impression is that most class D power amp sections are basically the same (ICE) unit? I figured this one’s just cheap because it’s low powered and made by a budget import company. Is there a danger to it like it would fry my Oracle? Or a reason it would just sound bad? Like I said, basically looking for the tone the power amp section of my ampeg has, just quieter and significantly smaller lol. Thanks!
Click to expand...
This is exactly why I added "why not" to my first comment. Go ahead and return it if it doesn't sound good… Maybe you can ask to the Thomann sales team before you buy if they see any reason why it wouldn't work for a bass + bass preamp.
 
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#8
gtirard said:
This is exactly why I added "why not" to my first comment. Go ahead and return it if it doesn't sound good… Maybe you can ask to the Thomann sales team before you buy if they see any reason why it wouldn't work for a bass + bass preamp.
Click to expand...
Cool, yeah I may give it a try. Someone on Reddit said it was working well for them (tho there advice can be less reliable than on here). If I do decide to give it a try I will report back on my findings. Still curious about what made you initally wary of the idea? Just a tone thing?
 
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#9
Smokey P said:
Still curious about what made you initally wary of the idea? Just a tone thing?
Click to expand...
#1. I'm a snob, never trust cheap brands, and I don't like the idea of adding a poor quality element in a good signal chain.
#2. The more I get old, the more I'm getting wealthier & sensible to ecological concerns. So I tend to buy less products, more durable (in term of build quality and technology), and if possible local.
#3. And of course the question of the "bandwidth specs"
 
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#10
There is also the possibility that what makes you appreciate the PF500 set up is the headroom. The PF has WAY more to reach back for to push the low end.

Does the BAM have fx loop? You mention that you ran the pre into the front end, so maybe the BAM doesn't have a loop. I'd say maybe try a different bass head with lower power.... maybe an MB200 or similar that DOES have a loop you can run into just the power section.

Yeah, there are 25 watt bass amps. Folks use them and generally like them for what they are. The thing is, they're purpose-built with appropriate eq and power supplies for bass amplification.

I don't think your proposed rig will be great. You need more headroom. As proposed, you will be railing that amp to get much volume at 8 ohms. Solid state power sections don't tend to like being maxed, and the tone will suffer.

My $0.02
 
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#11
Smokey P said:
Why not though? Genuinely wondering, this is my first time doing the preamp/power amp thing so I’m new to it. My impression is that most class D power amp sections are basically the same (ICE) unit?
Click to expand...

Many use ICEpower modules, but many don't. And then the actual implementation details of the power section make a very substantial difference, IMO and IME.
 
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#12
gtirard said:
#1. I'm a snob, never trust cheap brands, and I don't like the idea of adding a poor quality element in a good signal chain.
#2. The more I get old, the more I'm getting wealthier & sensible to ecological concerns. So I tend to buy less products, more durable (in term of build quality and technology), and if possible local.
#3. And of course the question of the "bandwidth specs"
Click to expand...

Yeah those are good reasons, particularly the 2nd one, if I was in a similar position I would probably pick up a baby sumo and sell the TC and the ampeg. But I have not had the years to acquire the wealth for it, I’m 25.

basscooker said:
There is also the possibility that what makes you appreciate the PF500 set up is the headroom. The PF has WAY more to reach back for to push the low end.

Does the BAM have fx loop? You mention that you ran the pre into the front end, so maybe the BAM doesn't have a loop. I'd say maybe try a different bass head with lower power.... maybe an MB200 or similar that DOES have a loop you can run into just the power section.

Yeah, there are 25 watt bass amps. Folks use them and generally like them for what they are. The thing is, they're purpose-built with appropriate eq and power supplies for bass amplification.

I don't think your proposed rig will be great. You need more headroom. As proposed, you will be railing that amp to get much volume at 8 ohms. Solid state power sections don't tend to like being maxed, and the tone will suffer.

My $0.02
Click to expand...


Yeah headroom is definitely part of the equation, I might try some different settings on the bam. Maybe turning up the master on the Bam200 to be set pretty high and then using the master on the Oracle to control volume. Is one way better than the other in that instance? As in should I run the TC volume up high and then use the pre amp master as my volume, or should I run the pre amp high and use the volume on the TC to set levels? No effects loop on the TC unfortunately, was looking at some like the GK u mentioned or a markbass nano, but that’s just a bit out of my budget at the moment. Keeping the pf500 for this purpose for now but really just looking for something small and cheap to use for most of my stuff for now.
 
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#16
What cab?
Is it possible you could find success in a cab voiced differently, for less coin than a new amp?

If the BAM isn't a gain/master design: your best bet is, IMHO, to keep its volume as low as possible to get the level you need. Use the Oracle for adjusting level. It will be challenging to find a middle ground between high volume and coloring from the BAM.

If the BAM has gain and master, get the master up really high, set a decent output level on the Oracle, and adjust volume with the BAM gain control. This should give you the most "clean" headroom.

The BAM may be your limiting factor since you really just need power, and it lacks the fx return.
 
#18
On the super cheap side, this product from Thomann is for guitar too, but at least one of the comments says it's also great for bass.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_gpa_100.htm

Event cheaper than the Hotone, but Harley Benton has a strong reputation for quality / price ratio.

The comment regarding bass is written in French, but here's a Deepl translation:

"…And then a little light went on in my little head: no reason why a power amp that works with a guitar preamp should not work with a bass preamp, and why its bandwidth should be strictly limited to the guitar spectrum. So I took the plunge, and today I'm greatly rewarded: my VR mic head connected to the GPA-100 via the effect loop send (post-equal preamp output) has just been given a second lease of life!
All associated with one or 2 cabs depending on the context, the sound and power are well there, equivalent to the sound of the original power stage!
After a few rather noisy rehearsals, I can even add that this little power amp is reliable and quiet (no hiss or hum) and that I use it with its own "flat" equalization.
I also use it with an Ampeg RB-112 (always via the send of the effect loop) to increase the power by connecting it to one or two extra cabs, the addition of extra cabinets not being allowed by the RB-112 configuration (1 HP 12' / 4 Ohms)
In short, highly recommended, even for bass."

Translated with DeepL
 
#20
basscooker said:
What cab?
Is it possible you could find success in a cab voiced differently, for less coin than a new amp?

If the BAM isn't a gain/master design: your best bet is, IMHO, to keep its volume as low as possible to get the level you need. Use the Oracle for adjusting level. It will be challenging to find a middle ground between high volume and coloring from the BAM.

If the BAM has gain and master, get the master up really high, set a decent output level on the Oracle, and adjust volume with the BAM gain control. This should give you the most "clean" headroom.

The BAM may be your limiting factor since you really just need power, and it lacks the fx return.
Click to expand...

Cool! Thanks for the info on setting levels. The bam does have gain and master so I’ll try your recommendation. It might be a power issue but it’s always felt like plenty of head room for what I was using it for, and then if I needed more I’d bring in the ampeg. The cab is a custom revsound 112, new double ported design, super efficient and sensitive, so I have never needed more watts to get a volume I’m happy with. I LOVE that cabinet and have really enjoyed its voicing overall so I don’t think that’s my issue. I’ll try some balancing act with the gain/master situation. I do think the Bam is the “issue”.

gtirard said:
On the super cheap side, this product from Thomann is for guitar too, but at least one of the comments says it's also great for bass.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_gpa_100.htm

Event cheaper than the Hotone, but Harley Benton has a strong reputation for quality / price ratio.

The comment regarding bass is written in French, but here's a Deepl translation:

"…And then a little light went on in my little head: no reason why a power amp that works with a guitar preamp should not work with a bass preamp, and why its bandwidth should be strictly limited to the guitar spectrum. So I took the plunge, and today I'm greatly rewarded: my VR mic head connected to the GPA-100 via the effect loop send (post-equal preamp output) has just been given a second lease of life!
All associated with one or 2 cabs depending on the context, the sound and power are well there, equivalent to the sound of the original power stage!
After a few rather noisy rehearsals, I can even add that this little power amp is reliable and quiet (no hiss or hum) and that I use it with its own "flat" equalization.
I also use it with an Ampeg RB-112 (always via the send of the effect loop) to increase the power by connecting it to one or two extra cabs, the addition of extra cabinets not being allowed by the RB-112 configuration (1 HP 12' / 4 Ohms)
In short, highly recommended, even for bass."

Translated with DeepL
Click to expand...

thanks for translating that info for me! I was looking at that one as well as an option, but figured the Hotone would be a better choice because I have the impression that the EQ on the TC BAM is what was sucking all the tone out of my sound through it, so I thought the Hotone because I wanted to avoid and EQ section that didn’t have an EQ defeat. Have also considered the Seymour Duncan power stage amps, but then I’m up into the Sumo price point. The real answer might be to try and sell the ampeg and TC and save some dough for a sumo. But I figured if the Hotone could be used as a cheap fix for small gigs then I would just try that. Any reason the Harley Benton would be a better choice than the Hotone besides the brands reputation? I guess cause I had the same thought as the French comment when it came to, if it’s just a power amp why not for bass etc. etc. might just be worth it to purchase one of these options and return it if the results are no good.
 

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