How can I change a preset scene using a pedal

[pedroims]

I was out of town for one month and at my return I found that my church changed the mixer, we are now using an X32 which is great but unfortunately we hired somebody to present a scene that the people running the mixer should use as it is and they should do the mix only. Yesterday was the first time I played under this setup and the bass sounded great on my IEM but from the stage is sounded too ‘’bassy’ on the FOH.


After the service I asked the sound guy to show me my channel eq and it was there: below 80Hz boosted by several Db, from 200 to 800hz cut, high boosted. I texted one of our guitarist that was on the audience and asked him how the bass sounded. His answer: I could feel it but I could not distinguish a single note L


The problem is that I am not allowed to touch the mixer and neither any of the guys running the board will do it. My question is: Is there any way to affect the FOH from my end?

Currently I just plug my stingray or 5502 to a JDI and send it to the mixer, I am wondering if any preamp or eq will help to bring some of the mids back despite the fact that in the mixer they are cut. If this is doable, what type of pedal do you recommend? I was thinking in the MX81 but I am not sure if tweaking the signal from my side will affect what the mixer is sending to the FOH.

 

[Roland GR 88]

Good luck....print out the manual, show up real early, tweak your settings and hit 'save'.
There just isn't any reason to avoid simple EQ adjustments unless the sound guy is afraid of the board or the people that bought it.
I would avoid sending an oddly eq'd signal to the FOH in this case as the operators seem to be a bit stunned but it might be worth a try. I would start with just the tone stack on your bass and I wouldn't buy a pedal to compensate for a 1/4 turn of a knob at the board.
A scene is just a snapshot for that particular place in time and should be considered a reference point only. Climate, # of bodies in the pews, instrumentation and personnel changes will make programmed scenes redundant pretty quickly.

 

[pedroims]

Good luck....print out the manual, show up real early, tweak your settings and hit 'save'.
There just isn't any reason to avoid simple EQ adjustments unless the sound guy is afraid of the board or the people that bought it.
I would avoid sending an oddly eq'd signal to the FOH in this case as the operators seem to be a bit stunned but it might be worth a try. I would start with just the tone stack on your bass and I wouldn't buy a pedal to compensate for a 1/4 turn of a knob at the board.

Unfortunately our ''sound guys'' are just volunteers that wont touch any button they were told not to do. And you got my point, I don't think that trying to compensate from my side will help neither. This situation sucks, I don't need ''my tone'', in fact, I don't have any tone, but it would be nice to heard the bass notes and not only feeling the sub's

 

[Geri O]

Unfortunately, a lot of "church production" works the same way yours does. They all want the big production, but no budget or properly-trained techs to drive it.

This will be the least popular answer, it's my least favorite answer, but it may be best for you to just serve, work hard and be prepared, and play well, knowing that you've done your part for the worship ministry and walk away, taking comfort in that. I have been and still and am part-time in the pro audio business and I've stopped taking service calls and training requests from churches looking for the cheap and easy answers. At a certain age, you learn that there's no value in beating yer head against a rock.

 

[EastCoastThump]

A pedal pre/DI with low/mid/hi eq *could* help.

But you'd need opportunity to dial it in, or else you'd just be sailing blind in strong lee winds. You'll also likely find that stacking one eq to fix another leaves your tone at least somewhat blurred—although it'll still likely be an improvement.

 

[Rick Auricchio]

Start by dialing down the bass on the Stingray. If the sound guy boosts further to compensate, then don't waste your time trying to make it sound right.

Speak with someone in charge. Tell this person that your years of learning, practicing and rehearsing are being ruined by inexperienced sound guys. Your have high standards; you refuse to have someone sabotaging your performance. Has the sound guy spent even a few hours learning his craft?

And don't accept any malarkey about volunteers, all serving, and turning the other cheek. People should be held accountable, even in a worship situation. If they need training, then they should be trained. If they don't come through, then respectfully resign.

 

[BuckeyeBassman]

I have experienced similar frustrations with poor FOH bass sound and have learned it is best to focus on what you can control. I take a signal from the Avalon (direct box) and a signal from M48 (stage mixer) and run both through a personal headphone mixer. I can then usually control the mix in my headphones and make the bass prominent (where it belongs - at least in my ears). I have found if I can hear myself and others on stage there is a lot better potential we will connect while playing and also with the audience.

 

[Grumry]

If you can use your phone and connect on the app as admin you can edit any of the channels parameters.

Edit - tell them it's so you can mix your own monitor, but you can also eq/comp/etc to your desire.

 

[ak56]

If you can use your phone and connect on the app as admin you can edit any of the channels parameters.

Edit - tell them it's so you can mix your own monitor, but you can also eq/comp/etc to your desire.

We just recently upgraded our church to an X32 as well, and this is exactly what I do, set the channel myself.

I actually set the channel flat, and use my bass and/or sansamp BDDI eq's for the sound I want.

 

[pedroims]

Thanks guys, I hope I can at least convince the leader to set my channel flat and let me use a preamp to somehow control my sound. My use IME and everybody has their own monitor mixer, I can heard myself perfectly fine but I was little disappointed to learn that in FOH is all about SUBs.

If they don't agreed then as you guys recommended, focus on serving and forget everything else.

 

[Geri O]

Start by dialing down the bass on the Stingray. If the sound guy boosts further to compensate, then don't waste your time trying to make it sound right.

Speak with someone in charge. Tell this person that your years of learning, practicing and rehearsing are being ruined by inexperienced sound guys. Your have high standards; you refuse to have someone sabotaging your performance. Has the sound guy spent even a few hours learning his craft?

And don't accept any malarkey about volunteers, all serving, and turning the other cheek. People should be held accountable, even in a worship situation. If they need training, then they should be trained. If they don't come through, then respectfully resign.

Okay, I'll overlook the elementary term "malarky" and try to respond like an adult...

The issues of training and mixing properly needs to be addressed by a supervisor over the tech team. I'm not saying you are wrong for approaching the sound person with "years of learning, practicing and rehearsing are being ruined by inexperienced sound guys". I'm saying you will be considered a prima donna with that approach, right or wrong. Of course, you are free to approach the tech team any way you see fit. Good luck with that approach.

 

[Rick Auricchio]

Okay, I'll overlook the elementary term "malarky" and try to respond like an adult...

I would have said "BS" but chose a different word.

The issues of training and mixing properly needs to be addressed by a supervisor over the tech team. I'm not saying you are wrong for approaching the sound person with "years of learning, practicing and rehearsing are being ruined by inexperienced sound guys".

The paragraph was about speaking to someone in charge, not speaking with the sound guys. Whether that's the band leader, a worship leader, whomever.

And I neglected to say that "...changing a preset with a pedal..." and thereby overriding something in the FOH system would be a recipe for dismissal. It's the equivalent of hacking.

 

[WayneP]

The problem is that I am not allowed to touch the mixer and neither any of the guys running the board will do it. My question is: Is there any way to affect the FOH from my end?

Ahh, so even without the sliders they’re still dialing in the old “smiley face” EQ.

Currently I just plug my stingray or 5502 to a JDI and send it to the mixer, I am wondering if any preamp or eq will help to bring some of the mids back despite the fact that in the mixer they are cut.

Sure, you can get a pedal with bass, mid and treble controls and cut the bass, and treble as well if you're getting to much “clickity-clack” in the house. The only downside is, as you suspect, that the same signal will show up in your IEM. However, if you’re using the P-16M it has tone controls, so you can “fix the fix” somewhat. I know, crazy, huh?

But – there are other potential issues as well that could be contributing to the situation. For instance, at the church I’m currently attending that’s using the X32, I checked the main output page and found some wacky EQ dialed in that was cutting the bass to the main speakers!

In addition to all this, they may simply have the subs turned up too much.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
Pedulla Club #45