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How can I get "more me" , same old question, definitely a different situation
- Thread starter poomwah
- Start date
With a real sound system that would be the solution. However, the bass isn't even going through the monitors , one because the monitors can't handle the low end, and two, the guitarist doesn't want to hear the bass in the monitors. They also have the vocal monitor levels where they work best for the lead singer.
If I had my way, I'd run the B3 and no amp. BUT, their sound guy does'nt want me to use the B3 at all.
I just looked at the Alto, I had been thinking of doing something like that, but the guys' snake only has XLR and he is against having a cable with a 1/4 on my end an xlr on his. so I need to stick with something with XLR outs... Yamaha MG06 perhaps. Or possibly go with an MG10.. I'm trying to come up with a "bandaid" (great way to put it, once again) solution that will get me by for a while, but can still be used in my next band.
Okay, I think you missed where I was going with this as you don't actually send an output of your mixer to him. The output of my mixer goes only to my IEM rig. Nonetheless, it appears that you've come up with a solution.
And ask your soundguy if he understands that a TRS (tip/ring/sleeve) to XLR (that is an acronym for something, but I've forgotten what) adapter is the same thing with different connectors. If he doesn't get it or still objects, then you have the wrong soundguy (who may nonetheless be getting the job done for you and that's fine, too).
(EDIT) I have a long pre-production day tomorrow (Friday), but I will try to make a PDF diagram of my little system and post it here.
Ok, I understand with your rig, you split off the signals and send what you want to your mixer. He won't let me do that. I'm going to be limited to running my mic, my bass, and the generic stage mix to my mixer and adjusting it from there.
And you hit the nail on the head. the WRONG sound guy. I mean, equal share of the pay for a small powered mixer with one monitor out and 6x9's?
and for what its worth, I love the idea of splitting everything and keeping it separate. It would SIGNIFICANTLY simplify the mixer I'd need
Geez....
I was trying to give that guy the benefit of the doubt, but hell naw, not after reading that. He's supposed to, within reason, take whatever XLR outputs you hand him to his console, split or not. What, does his head explode when he sees a real snake split with a FOH and monitor console???
Okay, off the tear now...I guess you'l have to deal with the situation as best as you can and justify being there unless and until you find something better. I wish you well. No, really...
Yes. This is actually very simple, and what the PM351 was designed for. Tuner and PM351 (+ any other number of FX, even if that number = 0) on a pedalboard by your mic stand. A tap from the band's one sad little aux mix to the PM351's line input. Your vocal mic into the PM351 and from there to the PA via the PM351's mic thru output. Your bass to muting tuner (on pedalboard). Tuner output to Rolls, w bass sent to PA via PM351's XLR (L or R) instrument out.
Then, bass to your stage rig one of two ways. You could use an XLR-to-standard (TS) 1/4" cable or adapter from the PM351's 2nd XLR instrument output to the input of your amp. Alternatively, you could use a tuner that has two 1/4" outputs, sending one to your stage rig and the other to your PM351. (Note:depending on how the turner is set up, this might leave bass audible in your stage rig even while muted in FOH for tuning.)
As a third way, you could split the bass signal using a separate DI on the pedalboard b/w tuner and PM351. No need for that, though, unless you want to run a high quality DI for its own sake.
If you stay near your stage mic during performance, keeping the PM351 on a board w/ the tuner at your stage mic position gives you the less expensive option of going wired from the PM351 to your IEMs. Just use a combo instrument/IEM cable. (Here's Link Removed to give you the idea. Crazy expensive, but just roll your own with shrink tubing.)
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Depending on how much money the band is making, a sound guy who will take an even cut can be a pretty good deal. Many sound guys charge a flat fee which is often more than the split for the band members, unless you're making a lot. But then, if you're not making a lot, it's often just as well to run your own sound from the stage.
I cover my dolly with a black cloth. It looks fine. If you can't hear yourself it doesn't matter how it looks.
Yes. This is actually very simple, and what the PM351 was designed for. Tuner and PM351 (+ any other number of FX, even if that number = 0) on a pedalboard by your mic stand. A tap from the band's one sad little aux mix to the PM351's line input. Your vocal mic into the PM351 and from there to the PA via the PM351's mic thru output. Your bass to muting tuner (on pedalboard). Tuner output to Rolls, w bass sent to PA via PM351's XLR (L or R) instrument out.
Then, bass to your stage rig one of two ways. You could use an XLR-to-standard (TS) 1/4" cable or adapter from the PM351's 2nd XLR instrument output to the input of your amp. Alternatively, you could use a tuner that has two 1/4" outputs, sending one to your stage rig and the other to your PM351. (Note:depending on how the turner is set up, this might leave bass audible in your stage rig even while muted in FOH for tuning.)
As a third way, you could split the bass signal using a separate DI on the pedalboard b/w tuner and PM351. No need for that, though, unless you want to run a high quality DI for its own sake.
If you stay near your stage mic during performance, keeping the PM351 on a board w/ the tuner at your stage mic position gives you the less expensive option of going wired from the PM351 to your IEMs. Just use a combo instrument/IEM cable. (Here's Link Removed to give you the idea. Crazy expensive, but just roll your own with shrink tubing.)
Sounds like some great options. Wired is definitely the way to go for money's sake, especially since not only do I not get to move around, I have to SIT the whole damn time :[
I'm still trying to figure out how to do everything within the restrictions being placed upon me. For instance, I like your idea of going into the ROlls then splitting off to FOH and to my stage rig. but NOOOO, he will ONLY accept the line out ON my amp. Seriously?!?! I wish they didn't love this guy so much, I'd take his job. I've got a powered mixer that's at least as good as his and better mains. All this guy has on me is a pair of powered monitors, a pair of 6x9's and a buttload more cables. Even with my gear I bet I could make it sound better :[
that's what I tried to explain, but they already think my amp is too big as it is.
So you can't hear your own amp on stage, and they're telling you it's too big?
Why are you in this band again?
I keep asking myself the same question.
Boils down to lack of options. Rural area with a VERY bad music scene with very few venues for live music. No money to drive to a bigger city.
waitaminute...
1. you have to sit the whole time? Why? what sort of places (and music) are you playing?
Something's not making sense to me right now. A super loud acoustic guitar and super loud drums, but everyone is sitting? If it's a sitting kind of gig, I'd assume it'd be a relatively low volume gig as well.
and 2. you "don't get" to run your pedalboard?
Why the hell not? It's part of your toolbox, right? They hired you because of your knowledge and ability, right? Well, that toolbox fits right in there.
If you were using effects poorly then I could see them talking to you about it, but banning you from having a board?!
1. you have to sit the whole time? Why? what sort of places (and music) are you playing?
Something's not making sense to me right now. A super loud acoustic guitar and super loud drums, but everyone is sitting? If it's a sitting kind of gig, I'd assume it'd be a relatively low volume gig as well.
and 2. you "don't get" to run your pedalboard?
Why the hell not? It's part of your toolbox, right? They hired you because of your knowledge and ability, right? Well, that toolbox fits right in there.
If you were using effects poorly then I could see them talking to you about it, but banning you from having a board?!
I would understand the using the effects poorly too, but right from the bat, the sound guy told me no effects, before he'd ever even heard me play. I told him I like to run the comp on my amp, he said NO FX.
So, the band markets themselves as acoustic. It's a gimmick really. So they get all the small gigs that don't want a huge band like Amvets, VFW, Eagles, Moose, SMALL bars, and they have a very big following in this area, despite all the problems that people around her just dont notice (timing and structure issues) anyway, they want me to buy an acoustic, NOT happening, can't afford it and I find them extremely uncomfortable to play. So I used my hollow body electric, which I figured would not be a problem since the guitarist by the end of the night is playing through so many effects that you'd never know it was acoustic.
SO, the night starts relatively tame. Guitarist playing clean, drummer not getting out of hand, but still louder than I think an "acoustic" set should be. They just keep getting louder and louder. They consider the third set their "rockin" set, even though it has some country in it, YUCK, lol. They cover several different styles , classic rock, country, 90's rock, blues. It doesn't help that its my job to provide a "monitor" for the drummer to hear the bass and my cabinet is behind the kit and pointed more toward him than me. Also doesn't help on the small stages that my head is usually 2 feet (literally) from a cymbal. Another reason I want to go IEM so I can hear still hear.
It's a really shaged up situation that only musicians see a problem with, except for the ones in the band, they think everything is great. Every other musician I talk to or that has heard them asks "what the shag?"
But I don't know any musicians around here. And this is my first paying gig (46 and I never got paid to play until two weeks ago, pitiful) until now it was always just playing parties and cookouts and such. Struggling to get bands off the ground and having members quit or not do their job, you guys all know how it is. Then these guys come along and ask me to come jam with them and see how it goes, so I go to their rehearal and they tell me that their bass player is leaving jan 1 and they will let me know if they want me. They call me the next day (Friday) to say he quit and they need me saturday. So, that's how that happened.
So I'm really hoping that this gets me to something better.
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So the sitting thing makes more sense now.
However, do what you've gotta do (within reason) to raise up your bass cab. If you can't hear yourself, it doesn't matter how you look because the band will sound like crap. Do you have another cab you could stack under your rig but not plug in? That'd look professional and solve your problem.
And start bringing your board, just to have, but tread lightly on using the effects. Tasteful is the name of the game. You want folks to notice something changed, but not necessarily that it was you adding an effect.
If they immediately poo-poo these changes, then I'd quit.
If things don't get better, turn your volume all the way down on the third set , but keep "playing", and see what they say. If they don't notice your lack of presence in the mix, quit.
Basically, this band isn't going to pan out for you unless changes come. Wisdom has taught me not to be the guy grasping for excuses to stay and try to make it work when everything else is against it. The trick is knowing the difference between a tough situation and an impossible one.
Good luck!
